The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[Leahs Mom]

Quote:
Sometimes a disease can cause malnourishment. What kind of feed were you giving...was it a bagged feed or something you made yourself? Also, they definitely need meat (read insect also) protein and feed with soy can definitely cause malnourishment.

And if soy is used that isn't long cooked (roasted usually), it can definitely be toxic and cause malnutrition.

 

[Leahs Mom]

@lalaland
Have you heard anything else on your birds?

 

[ronott1]

Sometimes a disease can cause malnourishment. What kind of feed were you giving...was it a bagged feed or something you made yourself? Also, they definitely need meat (read insect also) protein and feed with soy can definitely cause malnourishment.

And if soy is used that isn't long cooked (roasted usually), it can definitely be toxic and cause malnutrition.

Fermenting converts soy and makes it non toxic.

 

[ronott1]

someone just gave us a thigh (i think) of venison. I have cut off all the meat for us, and pile of stuff for the dog. is it ok to throw the bone in the coop?

The chickens will pick the meat off of the bones--marrow too if they can get to it.

It will be very good for them.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Quote: That is only partially true.

If the soy is raw, to make it non-toxic it has to be long fermented...as in over a year...to take care of the toxicity issues. Even in long-fermented soy, it can only be safely eaten in tiny amounts and definitely not as a mainstay. (Lots of studies on this...)

If roasted, the fermenting doesn't need to be as long, but it still retains a good amount of anti-nutrients that aren't entirely taken care of by the fermentation/soaking. It is much better....but it can still cause malnourishment if there isn't a good balanced diet in addition to the soy and if it isn't used as the "mainstay" of the diet.

Many that "ferment" feed are not doing a long ferment and it is probably more realistic to call it "soaking". Soaking also goes a LONG WAY toward reducing antinutrients in grains and even soy...but it's very important that soy is not the bulk of the diet for optimum nutrition.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Quote:
I'd give it to them too! The only thing I"d be careful of is that they can clean it up relatively quickly so you don't have the meat rotting. Rotting meat always has the potential to produce botulism.... if you think they can't finish it off relatively quickly, I'd cut off what you can, give them the bone to pick, and refrigerate excess to give daily!

 

[ronott1]

That is only partially true.

If the soy is raw, to make it non-toxic it has to be long fermented...as in over a year...to take care of the toxicity issues. Even in long-fermented soy, it can only be safely eaten in tiny amounts and definitely not as a mainstay. (Lots of studies on this...)

If roasted, the fermenting doesn't need to be as long, but it still retains a good amount of anti-nutrients that aren't entirely taken care of by the fermentation/soaking. It is much better....but it can still cause malnourishment if there isn't a good balanced diet in addition to the soy and if it isn't used as the "mainstay" of the diet.

Many that "ferment" feed are not doing a long ferment and it is probably more realistic to call it "soaking". Soaking also goes a LONG WAY toward reducing antinutrients in grains and even soy...but it's very important that soy is not the bulk of the diet for optimum nutrition.

Thanks for posting this.

The same is true for Peas? A lot of non soy feed uses peas or other legumes for protein.

 

[Leahs Mom]

No...from what I understand, the field peas are safe to use uncooked. Still a good amount of antinutrients, but they don't carry the level of toxicity as soy.

Right now I'm using the field peas in my feed. But I sure wish I could figure out a way to not use legumes at all since it's not a natural part of a chicken's diet.

When I get home I'll have to try to find the list of items that are unsafe to use uncooked. There are some on there you'd be surprised at, but most of them are legumes.

I have this "theory" that if something has to be cooked for an animal to be able to eat it, it "probably" isn't a good thing to feed an animal.... So far I've never seen any of my chickens start a fire to cook anything...but I suppose there's a first time for everything

 

[ronott1]

No...from what I understand, the field peas are safe to use uncooked. Still a good amount of antinutrients, but they don't carry the level of toxicity as soy.

Right now I'm using the field peas in my feed. But I sure wish I could figure out a way to not use legumes at all since it's not a natural part of a chicken's diet.

When I get home I'll have to try to find the list of items that are unsafe to use uncooked. There are some on there you'd be surprised at, but most of them are legumes.

I have this "theory" that if something has to be cooked for an animal to be able to eat it, it "probably" isn't a good thing to feed an animal.... So far I've never seen any of my chickens start a fire to cook anything...but I suppose there's a first time for everything

How does this feed look?

I have used a version that had fish meal in it but they have changed it recently:

Quote:

Ground Wheat, Organic Canola Meal, Whole Pressed Safflower Meal, Calcium Carbonate, Rice Bran, Monocalcium Phosphate, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Sodium Chloride, L-Lysine, Diatomaceous earth, Sodium Bisulfite ,Sodium Sulfite,Potassium bisulfite, Methionine Hydroxy Analogue, Natural sources of Yellow made of Saponfied Extracts of Marigold Flowers, Choline Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Oxide, Zinc Oxide, Niacin, Selenium, Vitamin E Oil, Vitamin E Adsorbate, D-CA Pantothenate, Vitamin A 650, Basic Copper Chloride, Vitamin D3 500, Biotin, Riboflavin, Vitamin K MSBC, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Eddi, Vitamin B12, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid.

 

[vpatt]

I am buying non GMO soy free layer mash, but it is not organic. I have organic available locally but it is twice the price and I cannot afford it. My chickens also free range all day. Does this sound ok for them? Is the feed I am buying unhealthy?