The Old Folks Home

[superchemicalgirl]

This and the Maine state thread are the only ones I'm on. I got upset a few years ago and took my toys and went home. Wisher cajoled me into this thread (you have her to blame) and I'm glad I found this little community. Couldn't have made it through the last year without y'all.

 

[Athaid]

I will look into it more nearer the time

 

[chickadoodles]

Scg you are great support for all who need it and loads of laughs too!

 

[gpeters3]

Are welsummers considered EE's. Im not really ready to mess with hatching my own right now, just curious. One of the reasons i got rid of the roosters is because they butchered the hens and harrassed them so much they looked horrible. The one i have now is shy and not hurting the hens so im putting up with him. He wont let me touch him but he isnt being aggressive either. He is a fake auracana (supposed to lay colored eggs but......)

 

[perchie.girl]

I have had a bunch of hatchery and breeder roosters and the only ones that have not tried to get me are my Welsummer roosters.
I can even pick them up if I need to check or tend them and they will not hurt me. They are great with my hens also. I guess the only other rooster that I had this kick back was an AM rooster he was very laid back and an EE rooster I had raised about 8 or 9 broods of chicks for me.

I loved my Wellies Sturdy Pretty I had three Roos in with about twenty hens... One was boss but he was not abusive to anyone.

I could pick them up inspect them for boo boos and then their expression was like... "Get this over with already I have stuff to do...."

deb

 

[ronott1]

Are welsummers considered EE's. Im not really ready to mess with hatching my own right now, just curious. One of the reasons i got rid of the roosters is because they butchered the hens and harrassed them so much they looked horrible. The one i have now is shy and not hurting the hens so im putting up with him. He wont let me touch him but he isnt being aggressive either. He is a fake auracana (supposed to lay colored eggs but......)

Welsummers are dark brown egg layers. They do not have the blue shell gene unless they are crossed with a blue egg shelled breed.

 

[perchie.girl]

Are welsummers considered EE's. Im not really ready to mess with hatching my own right now, just curious. One of the reasons i got rid of the roosters is because they butchered the hens and harrassed them so much they looked horrible. The one i have now is shy and not hurting the hens so im putting up with him. He wont let me touch him but he isnt being aggressive either. He is a fake auracana (supposed to lay colored eggs but......)

Wellsummers are an old autosexing breed thats been around since the 20s they breed true..... and their eggs are dark terracotta brown with or with out speckles

Wellsummer eggs;



twenty hens gave me a variation of colors simlar to above.... Some light some dark some with speckles some not. Mine were hatchery birds

deb

 

[ronott1]

Wellsummers are an old autosexing breed thats been around since the 20s they breed true..... and their eggs are dark terracotta brown with or with out speckles

Wellsummer eggs;



twenty hens gave me a variation of colors simlar to above.... Some light some dark some with speckles some not. Mine were hatchery birds

deb

The partridge color is 80 to 90% sexable by color at hatch. They are not accurate enough to make the auto sexing list though, like Crested Cream legbars.

They will fool you with two out of an average hatch. I have had the same problem with Partridge Penedesencas.

 

[perchie.girl]

Quote:
ah... I thought eyeliner Girl.... no eyeliner Boy.... but still better odds of getting the sex right. My peeps were dead on.

though the hatchery did do a sex check because all the boy s had yellow mark on their heads when I got them...

The more I learn the more I find out I dont know....

deb

 

[ronott1]

ah... I thought eyeliner Girl.... no eyeliner Boy.... but still better odds of getting the sex right. My peeps were dead on.

though the hatchery did do a sex check because all the boy s had yellow mark on their heads when I got them...

The more I learn the more I find out I dont know....

deb

They are close enough that they were made into welbars--similar to Rhodebars. I have read about some projects to recreate them but I do not know if they were successful. They are extinct now.

This person is working on recreating them.

Quote: http://www.harislau.info/welbars

Day-old pullet
Showing dark head and dorsal stripe​

Day-old cockerel
Showing white headspot & absence of defined dark stripe​

The Welbar was created by Mr H R S Humphrey near Lustleigh in Devon, an independent breeder, who in 1942 mated Welsummer cocks to Barred Rock hens and set out to create autosexing Welsummers. He used both the Gold Welsummer (the typical colour in the breed) and the Silver Duckwing Welsummer; by 1946 had achieved his aim to such a degree that he was able to exhibit both birds and eggs of his new breed. In 1948, just 6 years after the initial cross, the Poultry Club of Great Britain recognised the breed and approved a Breed Standard for both the Gold and the Silver Welbar. At the same time as developing the Welbar Mr Humphrey was also working on the creation of an autosexing duck and was responsible for the development of the Dark Campbell, standardised in 1954, which when mated to White Campbell resulted in sex-linked ducklings.

The creation of the Welbar is outlined in the following chart:

The Welbar was created purely as a utility variety and Mr Humphrey would have preferred them to be a 'variety' of the Welsummer rather than a separate breed: they were bred as a commercially viable autosexing Welsummer, capable of laying large quantities of large dark brown eggs. The Gold Welbar is usually referred to simply as the 'Welbar', the Silver Welbar no longer seems to exist though I understand it may have been re-created, at least in bantam form.

The Welbar is defined by the Poultry Club of Great Britain as being a Soft Feather Light Breed and is classified as a Rare Breed. The average mature cock weighing 7½lb and the hen 6lb. They are upright, active birds with the typical deep, wide abdomen of the laying breeds. The cock is a handsome bird with cream and grey barred feathers. It is an upright bird, the tail is large, full and held high. They have a medium sized single comb which is firm and upright. The cock has a cape of abundant hackles and a long, slender neck.

Welbar Pullets - 2001​

In colour the cock is predominantly pale gold with black barring, however there is rich gold colouring in the neck and saddle hackles, and some degree of hot chestnut in the back and wing coverts; all told he is a very attractive chap, though not quite as 'flashy' as his richly coloured Welsummer cousin.

The hens are very similar to the Welsummer hen, but overall just a little paler in colour with a lovely salmon coloured breast. The Welbar is capable of laying a deep rich brown egg equivalent to those of the Welsummer - but that being said I have never had a hen lay an egg to equal the best Welsummer. It is a known fact that Welsummers laying the darkest eggs are not the most prolific layers, and because productivity is such an important factor in the Welbar a balance between depth of colour and productivity has to be reached. The best Welbars should lay in the region of 200+ eggs per year.

Welbar Eggs - 2001​

The Welbar was created solely as a free range, commercially viable, utility breed and selection should be primarily for egg colour, size and productivity; with feather quality, colour, comb, type and carriage being of secondary importance. It cannot be overstressed that the Welbar IS a Utility breed and it is of the utmost importance that the productive qualities are preserved and enhanced - otherwise (at least in my opinion) there is little purpose keeping the breed. It is not known whether the Welbars available today are descended from the 'Lustleigh' strain, or are the result of another cross, HOWEVER due to the lack of interest in the breed subsequent crosses seem highly unlikely. The 'Lustleigh' strain was bred until the early 1960's; some of my birds came from a breeder who had birds directly from Mr Humphreys, and accordingly it is highly likely that they are descended from Mr Humphrey's initial cross in 1942 - unfortunately it is no impossible to corroborate this, but I like to believe that it is true. In recent years, for whatever reason, it is possible that other people may have made attempts at recreating the Welbar.

When I first tried to obtain some Welbars I had great difficulty sourcing any stock, they were as scarce as hen's teeth! My mission in life during the 1980's was to follow up every breeder of Welbars I could find largely using the internet, Rare Breed Sales catalogues, and word of mouth. Over a period of years I managed to obtain stock from 4 different sources - the majority from very small breeding pens and unfortunately they had all the faults that so often go hand in hand with small scale breeding. After three years one strain was eliminated because it was rife with vices (serious feather pecking, cannibalism and egg eating), the eggs were small and shaped like 'bullets' and additionally they were a very poor colour and low productivity - in other words they had nothing beneficial to add!! Another strain was eliminated because it laid very small quantities of undersize tinted eggs.
Of the other two strains I had obtained one had very poor fertility, but the hens laid eggs of very good size and shape and in goodly numbers, though the eggs were of a light milk-coffee colour with small dark spots and a good matt finish. I crossed these with the Welsummers I already had and produced birds of excellent fertility which laid a good size egg of much better colour. The other strain was much heavier in type (rather more dual-purpose build) and were good layers of a reasonable coloured egg, reflecting the fact that they were from a more recent Welsummer/Welbar back-cross.

These two strains were then crossed together and the outcome was highly satisfactory - large eggs of much improved colour size and shape, excellent autosexing, and generally well worth their keep. I was then given a quartet of Welsummers for my 50th birthday by a close friend and crossed these into the Welbars which resulted in a slight improvement in shell colour. With the desire for improved shell cover I then bought some Welsummer pullets from Geoffrey Johnson whose strain was noted for laying large dark brown eggs; and though the Welbar pullets from this cross laid much better coloured eggs, the productivity was reduced .... after several generations the productivity increased but the shell colour declined, a nice strain though with 100% auto-sexing at hatch.

To improve egg colour I travelled up to Scotland to collect 40 hatching eggs from the Rev.Edward Lobb who describes his birds as "Exhibition/Utility" and initial results show that they are indeed prolific layers of very large eggs of excellent shell colour. They are large birds and of lighter type than my Welbars - though in honesty I am quite happy to have a more dual purpose strain of Welbar! I have the first outcross birds to this superb line and look forward to seeing an improvement in the egg colour of my Welbars over the next few years. The Rev.Lobb's Welsummers have been consistent winners, both birds and eggs, for many years and have been selected for productivity as well as show qualities, it is interesting to note that his birds are descended from his father's strain dating back to the early 1930's and he was one of the pioneer breeders of the Welsummer in the UK.

The originator of the Welbar had wanted his 'Lustleigh' birds to be classified as a division of the Welsummer and not a separate breed, he considered that they were only a Welsummer with the addition on one gene to enable autosexing for commercial purposes. The Welbar and Welsummer differ from one another by just the one gene and are therefore perfect partners. All pullets from the mating of a Welbar cock and Welsummer hens inherit ONE gene for B from their father and therefore are genetically Welbars - making a backcross so easy!

Mating a Welsummer cock to Welbar hens is also possible, but in this instance the first generation will produce no Welbars, however by selecting a male heterozygote (B/b+) from amongst the offspring and mating him to Welbar hens Welbars of both sexes will be produced.

It is therefore much easier to mate out to Welsummer hens than to use a Welsummer cock, additionally you have the advantage of knowing the egg quality of the Welsummer hens used in the cross. From experience I believe that outcrossing to Welsummer hens is essential every two or three generations in order to increase vitality and to maintain the same body type and characteristics as the Welsummer: only in this way can egg colour, size and shape be maintained, or improved.

The Welsummer is a popular breed and so there is no difficulty obtaining stock, however the problem is sourcing Utility Welsummers which have high productivity AND lay an excellent dark matt egg - there is little point crossing to a strain of Welsummers which has poor productivity! The whole aim of backcrossing to the Welsummer is to improve the egg colour, I have made numerous backcrosses to various strains of Welsummer but have produced only a few hens laying matt brown eggs and have to date never bred one with egg quality to equal the best Welsummer ... but one day ........