The Old Folks Home

[Arielle]

OK, I'm 200 posts behind and promise to catch up but I need a little advice.

I posted my birds on craigslist back in December. Someone from GA contacted me about buying a trio. They wanted to see pictures of the breeders to seal the deal. They had been searching for some for 2 years. (about the same amount of time it took me to find some) The original plan was to send them express mail.
I began the process of getting a form 9-3 and permit from the GA poultry dept. I bought adult size poultry shipping boxes, I bought excelsior mats for box lining. Those came to $32 for the shipment. Express mail would have been about $70 or more for 2 boxes.
The GA NPIP office had recently moved and they kept giving me the wrong fax number. It was also during Christmas and New Years weeks so my NPIP people didn't respond in a timely manner.
The buyer called and told me I didn't need a permit to send to GA because he "gets birds and eggs shipped to him all the time and never had one".
I told him that I don't plan on doing anything illegal because I don't want a fine.
I questioned the Georgia NPIP manager about this and she said Georgia state law requires an annual permit and form 9-3 to import any poultry or eggs into the state, which I already knew to be the case.
In the same phone call, the buyer also suggested that even though he still wanted them, my birds weren't up to par because he likes combs to be erect. I informed him that only the roosters combs should be erect and hens are supposed to flop over. He asked, "are they allowed to or supposed to"? I told him that all Mediterranean class hens combs are supposed to flop over, look at the standard.

Every correct Leghorn, Minorca, Ancona, Andalusian, Penedesenca and Spanish hen's comb flops to the side of the face.

I spent last week going over all my birds to find the best trio of 6 month old birds and put them in a breeder unit with fresh bedding so they'd be nice and clean when they arrived. It's been raining here.

So because the mail was slow from MO to GA, they had a new plan, to have them hand carried.
This was the e-mail I got from his wife.

"I think I have an alternative. I have a friend that lives near St. Louis who is coming south Monday. Would they be able to come Sat to pick the birds up in person? If so can you send me an address and also the total price for the birds.

Jen"

So I called her to find out what the disposition of the birds would be between Saturday and the trip on Monday. In that phone conversation, I gave her my home address and she assured me the birds would be well cared for and not kept near her friends birds in the interim.

So from this point forward, till late last night, I'm in contact with her friend who is showing at a dog show all weekend. In our Friday conversation she was going to come on Saturday after the dog show. When I called her on Saturday to find out what time, she said it was going to be Sunday but she didn't know when but after the show, depending on how her dogs did. I bought a bale of straw for bedding since I decided to save the excelsior for nest boxes. I went to Lowes and bought medium shipping boxes to save the poultry shippers for a future mailing. I was in the process of packing the birds when she called and had left the show and wanted to meet me at the intersection of I-44 and Jefferson in downtown St. Louis cause that was on her way to GA. That's about a half hour from my house. So I put the birds in the car and headed out. About half way there, she called and said I wasn't there so she was leaving.
Huh?
I then called the buyer and he was irate with ME! As far as he knew, apparently I was supposed to bring the birds to the dog show. Does anyone read anything in the above e-mail that suggests I'm supposed to chase that lady all over the territory carrying my birds?
The guy was literally screaming at me over the phone like the whole fiasco was my fault. I didn't even know where the dog show was, maybe my powers of clairvoyance aren't as sharp as they should be.
Now he wants the whole $100 back which was the price for a trio if they were to be picked up.

Suggestions?

Maybe I should refund the whole thing and write it off as a lesson to not sell birds to morons. At least I can probably use the shippers and other things for other purposes.

If you give back good money to all the morons you encounter you will not be fairly paid for your end of the work.

You also have say in how and when the birds are shipped. All good birds I have received have been shipped at the discretion of the breeder, not what was good for my schedule. I'm not complaining mind you, just that good birds are worth waiting for and the buyer needs to be patient. You have done a wonderful job of picking the best and keeping them clean and ready to travel.

I don't see ANYTHING in that message about brining the birds to any location; rather the request for an address implies they will pick up!!!!

NO REFUNDS. You have lived up to your end of the bargain. You are trying to get them good birds LEGALLY.

Good luck. Customers can be frustrating to deal with some times. THe good ones are gems.

 

[ronott1]

Woke up to chicks cheeping in the bator...hatching never gets old.

Jason offered eggs from his flock this weekend to hatch: Black penedesenca, OEs and I think Silver Ameraucanas.....Must resist......

Rhode Island reds, buff orpingtons, and dominiques....
After we get these out of the bator we will be hatching our own eggs. Looking forward to seeing our new crosses. Houdan x brahmas. Silkie x brahma. Isbars x crested cream legbar. Isbar x cuckoo Marans. Blue copper Marans x Crested cream legbar. Wheaten Marans x crested cream legbar. Blue copper Marans x buff brahma. Wheaten Marans x buff brahma. Isbar x buff brahma. And a few others

Nice Sir!

 

[hennible]

If you give back good money to all the morons you encounter you will not be fairly paid for your end of the work.

You also have say in how and when the birds are shipped. All good birds I have received have been shipped at the discretion of the breeder, not what was good for my schedule. I'm not complaining mind you, just that good birds are worth waiting for and the buyer needs to be patient. You have done a wonderful job of picking the best and keeping them clean and ready to travel.

I don't see ANYTHING in that message about brining the birds to any location; rather the request for an address implies they will pick up!!!! 

NO REFUNDS.  You have lived up to your end of the bargain. You are trying to get them good birds LEGALLY.

Good luck. Customers can be frustrating to deal with some times. THe good ones are gems.

CC I think Arielle make a good point....

 

[dsqard]

CC what I see in your story is a case of "buyers remorse" in that it sounds like the buyer was looking for any excuse to get his/her money back only because they changed their mind about purchasing the birds. What did you agree on and how much money of your own have you spent already (to include the straw and gas for trying to meet up with their friend)? If what you have spent so far to try to accommodate them and meet the regulations of shipping poultry across state lines is over their deposit then I wouldn't refund any of their money. I would explain to them that it was their choice to continuously change the agreement about how the birds were going to get to them and that if they wanted the birds you would still carry on with the sale agreement but that you wouldn't refund any monies already paid.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Thanks to all the advice so far. Good ideas.

The original price was 100 for the trio, the 32 for shipping materials and another approximately 80 for the shipping which was open because I hadn't weighed them and the boxes yet which would affect the price.

When the plan changed to having the birds picked up, the priced dropped back to the $100 which they sent by paypal. Then at about 2:30 this morning I got a message from paypal that they wanted the 100 refunded.

Hello *** *****,

Jen***** ******* requested $100.00 USD by phone, and also noted: Refund of payment for trio of penedesencas. . Sent using the PayPal Mobile application. To send money with your phone, visit https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_wapapp-web-sm&t=7EH82990LB8235003.
Or log in to PayPal on your computer and pay online.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I forgot to mention that I put heat in the coop for 7 or 8 nights over the last few weeks when temps were going into the teens and single digits to keep the cockerel from getting frostbite.

ETA
I just checked and it was 13 nights when it went below 20 and 2 full days when it never got out of the 20s.
I also put an A&D balm on the cockerels combs to keep them in good condition.

I wouldn't have done any of those things if I wasn't selling the birds.

 

[chickwhispers]

good luck cc.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

It was really a valuable lesson.
I just calculated it and it takes about $25 in organic feed to raise a single bird to 6 months, not to mention pine shavings, scratch grains, seeding the forage areas, straw for runs and bare areas in winter, electric for incubation and brooding, building depreciation, etc..
I've spent a fair amount of time translating the standards from both Catalonian (Spain) and Spanish (Argentina) to insure that I'm breeding/selecting to the best standard.
Add to that what I spent on this deal, I'm actually shocked.
So I wouldn't have made a dime on a $100 trio.

From now on, the price for a trio will be $200 minimum.

I just posted on craigslist because I had so many birds and don't like butchering POL hens but that's the last time I'll be seeking out bargain hunters.

I just looked at the paypal refund policy. They're definitely not getting the whole 100 back. I have to find all my receipts, including the fax receipts for the GA NPIP approval #.

 

[vehve]

CC, you should come up with a terms of service document you can send to each buyer beforehand, try to think of every scenario possible and write it with very small print so it doesn't seem so intimidating.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

You're so smart.

I once was a landlord and used a standard lease agreement.
Big mistake.
I saved the 'tenant from hell's' letters so I can build those issues in the addendums if I ever become a landlord again.
As an example, I took my son to fish at the common ground lake near the house to go fishing. She called me a lurker and threatened to call the police on me.

This is a similar situation that needs clarification.

My mom always said she attracted all the crazy people. I think I'm a magnet. Maybe it's hereditary.