The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

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Another question racertomtom, if you have a few different lines of the same breed, how do you know who is from what line if they are not banded from the beginning? Would simply toe punching them work for that? For the first generation at least? This year, it is looking like I will have two lines of the BR's I will be working with. Maybe another next year. ( Lord willing ) I need to keep meticulous records, so need a sure system for tracking the lines. I may take this in two separate directions. Breed my GSBR's to this years new line, and GSBR's to next years new line, an entirely separate line from this years new line. This I have not done before. I have used one line to introduce new blood, but not two completely separate lines. Does that make sense? I am trying to figure out how to track them and record what I choose to breed out of them. Next year, at first it will be easy, as there will be a size difference, but once they are grown out????? See what I am saying? Or did that just come out a jumbled mess because it's late and I should be in bed
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instead of running breeding plans through my head.
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What about a HUGE genetic line, on paper, on the wall? Would that even work? Like people tracking their heritage? With all the branches ect? I am a visual person, numbers get so jumbled, but if I can SEE it, it makes complete sense.. Is that too far out of the box? But back to the birds, I still need a way to keep track of multiple lines on the actual birds. I guess toe punching then banding would be the only way to do that, wouldn't it?
There are 16 combinations of toe punches. This would allow you to double mate 2 different lines for 4 years without duplicating. Pretty easy in the beginning because you should have better birds each year so you don’t typically keep birds around for very long. After your line starts to get established you may keep breeding the same bird over and over for 4 or more years. Of course by then you will recognize that bird and probably will have him banded.

I might point out that there is only three types of birds worth keeping. Breeders, show birds and layers. The breeders and show birds should be banded by now and you won’t be relying on punches anyway.

Some breeders say to lock in the type you want by breeding brother and sister. I prefer to breed the best cock to his daughters (f1), then f2, f3 etc. until he is dead or not usable. This is the first reason I won’t use plastic bands of any type. They will get brittle and won’t last that long. The second reason is I free range and my birds have no boundaries beyond the Great Pyrenees guardian dog’s patients. They have pasture, woods and thickets so I use aluminum bands and they rarely get lost.

As far as records go, anything you can keep track of should work for you. I’m not sure there’s a need to keep many records beyond the birds in your possession. I was just now looking at my records from 2003 and have no idea what PM+F1=F2A ¾ cock red78 means.
 
There are 16 combinations of toe punches. This would allow you to double mate 2 different lines for 4 years without duplicating. Pretty easy in the beginning because you should have better birds each year so you don’t typically keep birds around for very long. After your line starts to get established you may keep breeding the same bird over and over for 4 or more years. Of course by then you will recognize that bird and probably will have him banded.

I might point out that there is only three types of birds worth keeping. Breeders, show birds and layers. The breeders and show birds should be banded by now and you won’t be relying on punches anyway.

Some breeders say to lock in the type you want by breeding brother and sister. I prefer to breed the best cock to his daughters (f1), then f2, f3 etc. until he is dead or not usable. This is the first reason I won’t use plastic bands of any type. They will get brittle and won’t last that long. The second reason is I free range and my birds have no boundaries beyond the Great Pyrenees guardian dog’s patients. They have pasture, woods and thickets so I use aluminum bands and they rarely get lost.

As far as records go, anything you can keep track of should work for you. I’m not sure there’s a need to keep many records beyond the birds in your possession. I was just now looking at my records from 2003 and have no idea what PM+F1=F2A ¾ cock red78 means.


That last part was funny. I chuckled as I can see me doing that
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With the stock I bought this year, I am hoping the type is already pretty set.( time will tell ) The vigor and other issues is apparent in the BR's, but the others I am happy with and the Standard Dominique's are stunning already, at nearing 4 weeks. All six are keepers and I got 3 and 3. Going to have to breed brother and sister this year, but do have the option of a different line with them from the same breeder, so set there for future use.

It's the BR's I need to do some work on. Depending on what I end up with. I still can't sex them, which is a new thing for me, at a tad over a week. How are you at sexing that age? I used to pride myself on being very good with day old Standard BR's but this lot took me down a ton of pegs
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I THINK I see one pullet???? but wouldn't put money on it. Usually by 2 weeks I have them locked in. I do like challenges though
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and learning. I have always needed tons of info and drove Dad crazy with the but why? LOL

My goal is to keep the utility, and still have them show great. I think that is the best we can do for this breed. I don't think that is asking too much, do you? I want good layers, good meat, AND good show placement. I know it's a tall order, but I think, especially with help like you, Fred and others, it IS possible. What do you think? My Dad did it. I did compromise some of the utility back when I did breed to show. I was young. I don't see why we can't have it all in this line of BR's. I looked at Fred's eggs, and that alone shows that laying is there. I'm not going to show, but I want to breed birds that other people can show, as well as have a great utility bird. Am I reaching for the stars?

I got some NH's and have been reading everything I can find on them. They are new to me. I am reading the German NH thread as well. Apparently I have some German, some German crosses and some American????

The BR's are my love though and what I built my business plan around. I know them, from a child on. That's why I am on this thread. I want to know all the new stuff that I missed while I took some time off from keeping them.

Yes, I too have mixed ranging areas, I did see a locking "meta"l band on the link, so will go with that as you suggested. I do wish I had a dog for the chickens, and am considering it down the road a bit. For now, not an option for me, unfortunately. My head gets going, and I end up, 3-4 years out, and have to pull myself back to today
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I did take my late Dad and Bob's advise and purchased good Standard stock this year. Had a bump, but think it's going to work out with another option. So if that works, have the option to cross them out this first breeding. Lord willing!

Thanks so much for your advise. I need that right now and regard your advice highly!

Huge thanks
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Sorry for the cross - post, but seems as though the thread I used to follow on Barred Rocks isn't active any more. OOPS!
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Anyways, I have decided to start back up my breeding program of BRs and am super excited! Here is a picture of my one older hen left who I hatched from Jeremy's eggs a few years back. Can't wait to get more and start up again!
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Sorry for the cross - post, but seems as though the thread I used to follow on Barred Rocks isn't active any more. OOPS!
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Anyways, I have decided to start back up my breeding program of BRs and am super excited! Here is a picture of my one older hen left who I hatched from Jeremy's eggs a few years back. Can't wait to get more and start up again!
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Just curious, when did this bird hatch? And welcome back to Barreds!
 
I am very proud of my 6 Danny Padgett line Silver Penciled Plymouth Rock pullets. They have come into laying very well. The last couple days I have got 11 eggs from my 6 pullets. I'm very happy with this because yesterday I started collecting eggs to take to the Volunteer State Poultry Show in Dickson, TN April 26. At this rate I should have plenty hatching eggs to give her. :)
 
I noticed that fine looking hen has the cushion that SOP seems to frown upon but I'm finding a need for that cushion right now on one of my WR girls. This new cockerel I've got is a very rough, aggressive breeder and he is concentrating all his breeding on just the WRs in my flock....2 heritage line pullets and an ancient hatchery girl.

Every time he breeds the feathers are breaking and flying off the one WR pullet that has the more accepted back line without excess cushion. The other pullet seems to be surviving his efforts better simply because she has more cushion and she's not losing the feathers nor having the breakage the other pullet is having. The hatchery bird is having no damage at all and she has no cushion but her feathers are just like chain mail, they are that close to her body.

Any suggestions at all for how to save this pullet's appearance and plumage in the face of this rough riding....besides a foo foo apron? He's got other hens to use but doesn't seem to want to breed them as much or at all. I've only ever had one other rough breeder before and he was culled for that reason, but one simply cannot cull the only hope this flock has, so I'm thinking there has to be an old breeder's trick out there to spare the backsides or tame down his efforts.

Funny how he only wants to breed the WRs in the flock...you all ever heard of such a thing? I've never had a breed specific cock before.
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Also, in light of the rough style of this line's or bird's breeding, wouldn't the cushion be a desirable trait...outside the SOP, that is?
 
An sexually aggressive young cockerel is what he is. Often a #2 or #3 cockerel, who suddenly gets a bunch of females at his pleasure, is simply too fired up. He'll calm down with age, rest assured, but we might also consider pulling any overly submissive female who is allowing herself to be over ridden.

But, again, young cockerels are often over revved. I wouldn't necessarily give such young males unlimited, free access to females. A case of too much too soon, perhaps. He'd likely be unrecognizable to you in a year.

Some young cockerels are simply not ready for that much freedom and readily available mating opportunities that are presented.

This may be helpful in better understanding our rotational, single mating discussion of yesterday or the day before.
 
He's a young male . As he gets a littl older he should calm down . Hopefully he will help your feather quality on his offspring . Next time u pick him up look at his feather quality how close they fit to his body.
 
He's a young male . As he gets a littl older he should calm down . Hopefully he will help your feather quality on his offspring . Next time u pick him up look at his feather quality how close they fit to his body.


We were just admiring those feathers today....simply beautiful! I'm going to fix him up a generous sized bachelor pad and only allow him limited matings when the time is right. Wish I had a whole flock of old WR hens for him to practice his methods on. He is connecting so well it's been many a long year since I saw a cock hit the target so long and so well as this bird. He is a strong breeder! I LOVE it! I don't think I'll be needing to pluck any feathers off these girl's fluffy vents for a successful mating with this boy...he's getting past all that just fine.
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I think that's why I was unprepared for this in a free mating situation...it's been so long since I got to see a bird breed like this one. It's been since back in the 70s and it was a Leghorn.
 
We were just admiring those feathers today....simply beautiful! I'm going to fix him up a generous sized bachelor pad and only allow him limited matings when the time is right. Wish I had a whole flock of old WR hens for him to practice his methods on. He is connecting so well it's been many a long year since I saw a cock hit the target so long and so well as this bird. He is a strong breeder! I LOVE it! I don't think I'll be needing to pluck any feathers off these girl's fluffy vents for a successful mating with this boy...he's getting past all that just fine.
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I think that's why I was unprepared for this in a free mating situation...it's been so long since I got to see a bird breed like this one. It's been since back in the 70s and it was a Leghorn.

Good response, Bee. Really good.
 
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