The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[Wynette]

RECREATING the SPR? Well goodness, that would mean that....GASP...someone used something "other than" an SPR!?!? Say it ain't so!

 

[Silver Rock]

RECREATING the SPR?  Well goodness, that would mean that....GASP...someone used something "other than" an SPR!?!?  Say it ain't so!

Please explain yourself.


ps: Recreating the Silver Penciled Plymouth Rock can be done but in my opinion if you decide to do this you are in for a long, long breeding project.

 

[Fred's Hens]

I'm not saying re-creating the Barred Rock, for example, would be impossible, but it would difficult to have the same/similar genotype, even if one were to recreate the phenotype. The birds used in the original composite of the Barred Rock in the mid 1800's would be exceedingly difficult, if not impossible to secure. Foundational birds evolve so fast and disappear as well. What we call a Cochin today is not much what a Cochin likely was 180 years ago.

The older the breed, it seems to me, the more "gone missing" are the puzzle pieces. The Delaware was such a recent breed creation that it wasn't difficult to recreate them, not diminishing a blessed thing from the brilliance of Kathy in doing it. The mystery involved "Sampson" that almost mythical bird which George Ellis claimed was a "sport". Since George was a hatchery man, there's simply no way to verify anything. Just because books are old and publications are old, one needs to remember when you read those old documents that not everything back was as it seems and what, back then, was "truth"? Lots of smoke and mirrors back then and stories told. Caveat Emptor.

When we re-create a variety, one wonders if we can also re-create the same personality? Egg laying? Days to market? These things are extremely difficult to judge it seems to me.

Re-create the Silver Penciled Rock? Sure. Why not. Interesting pool side conversation over martinis. But that's about all and trust me, it won't be something I'll be doing.

I don't likely have enough days left on the green side of the sod.

 

[BGMatt]

To make sure we are all on the same page we do all understand that the Silver Penciled Plymouth Rocks we have today are of a US origin. As the Silver Penciled Plymouth Rocks originated in 1894 out of New York. So when we talk of a Canadian line Silver Penciled Plymouth Rock foreign blood the best we can hope for is a early separation of a Silver Penciled Plymouth Rock line of US Origin that migrated up to Canada years ago and breed without any US Silver Penciled Plymouth Rock blood being added in later over the years. I really do wish there was records on a Canadian breeder showing a long history of breeding the Silver Penciled Plymouth Rocks free of any US blood or records on a Canadian breeder of the past recreating the Silver Penciled Plymouth Rocks and breeding them without ever having to add in the US Silver Penciled Plymouth Rock blood. If anyone had such information or records of this please let me know.

Clayton Grace "Silver Rock"

Why limit yourself to established bloodlines? The breed and variety are both composites. The fascination with "maintaining" blood lines is a detriment to the breed as a whole. Thinking outside the box and doing what is necessary to bring the birds to where they should be is the hallmark of a great breeder. If I were to start a project to improve the Silver Pencilled (I sold mine, too much work and I just didn't care that much) I would start with outcrossing to either White Rocks (since they right now are in the best place out of all the Rock varieties) and breed back for color, or to Dark Brahma's and breed back to type, either way you're probably looking at 5 years or more, but you'd reach your goal faster than trying to stay true to the blood lines that are out there now. heck I'd probably do both and then bring them together.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Seriously, it's a wonder I never got invovled with the Barred variety; there is nothing on this planet, in my opinion, that's more handsome than a well-bred Barred Rock cock bird.

Except to see and carrying a true bred, heritage Rhode Island Red male and carry them into the soft daylight and examine the feathering. Heresy, I know for a Rock man, but by golly, it is true. Every bird addict needs to see these Reds, up close, in person, in soft daylight before you blow out the bedside candle for the last time.

Truly. Then, you give that big ol' Red back to it's keeper and go on with your own favorite breed. It's OK.

 

[Silver Rock]

Why limit yourself to established bloodlines?  The breed and variety are both composites.  The fascination with "maintaining" blood lines is a detriment to the breed as a whole.  Thinking outside the box and doing what is necessary to bring the birds to where they should be is the hallmark of a great breeder.  If I were to start a project to improve the Silver Pencilled (I sold mine, too much work and I just didn't care that much) I would start with outcrossing to either White Rocks (since they right now are in the best place out of all the Rock varieties) and breed back for color, or to Dark Brahma's and breed back to type, either way you're probably looking at 5 years or more, but you'd reach your goal faster than trying to stay true to the blood lines that are out there now.  heck I'd probably do both and then bring them together.

Hi Matt, the Padgett line I have has recently had Dark Brahma blood added into them. For next few years I plan to just keep it simple and selective breed between the Horstman line & Padgett line and see what I come up with. At some point in the future I will definitely outcross to get a better type if I need to.

 

[Wynette]

Except to see and carrying a true bred, heritage Rhode Island Red male and carry them into the soft daylight and examine the feathering. Heresy, I know for a Rock man, but by golly, it is true. Every bird addict needs to see these Reds, up close, in person, in soft daylight before you blow out the bedside candle for the last time.

Truly. Then, you give that big ol' Red back to it's keeper and go on with your own favorite breed. It's OK.

Sounds like a very, very special moment in time.

 

[Ripster]

Except to see and carrying a true bred, heritage Rhode Island Red male and carry them into the soft daylight and examine the feathering. Heresy, I know for a Rock man, but by golly, it is true. Every bird addict needs to see these Reds, up close, in person, in soft daylight before you blow out the bedside candle for the last time.

Truly. Then, you give that big ol' Red back to it's keeper and go on with your own favorite breed. It's OK.

Well Fred, I couldn't agree with you more about the Reds. They are indeed one of a kind. But I like my Barred Rocks too!!!

 

[aoxa]

Seriously, it's a wonder I never got invovled with the Barred variety; there is nothing on this planet, in my opinion, that's more handsome than a well-bred Barred Rock cock bird.

They can make you dizzy!

Except to see and carrying a true bred, heritage Rhode Island Red male and carry them into the soft daylight and examine the feathering. Heresy, I know for a Rock man, but by golly, it is true. Every bird addict needs to see these Reds, up close, in person, in soft daylight before you blow out the bedside candle for the last time.

Truly. Then, you give that big ol' Red back to it's keeper and go on with your own favorite breed. It's OK.

Fred, I like the Buckeyes better than the heritage RIRs. I have raised them side by side. I found the Buckeyes grew faster, and I like their pea comb.

Love my Buckeyes too.

That deep red colour is beautiful.

 

[Fred's Hens]

I hesitate to post this because I didn't want to mis-direct the thread down a rabbit trail, something all too common on many threads. But, if you need help in increasing your incubating and hatching capacity, there are any number of breeders posting on this thread who have built foam boxes or converted old cabinets or rebuilt and refurbished table top incubators and would be glad to help you.

To keep it from clogging up this thread and turning it an incubating thread, contact any of the regulars, the breeders posting here and they'll be very glad to help you. These boxes, for example, can be built for as little as $30.

Please use the private message system, but please do reach out if you need some help.