The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

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I want to share a couple of pictures with y'all; these are two Silver Penciled Rocks of two different lines. I sent several pictures of each to Rip, the judge who did the class on feather quality, BEFORE he did the class (this is actually what inspired me to ask him directly about feather quality):





While neither of these males is a fantastic example of the variety, they each have some desirable traits. But, in reagard to feather quality, do you see how the male on the bottom's feathers actually look like they don't follow the countours of his body as well as the top male's? Compare the breasts & you can really see it. The bottom male's profile almost looks bumpy in the breast, while the male in the top picture's breast looks quite smooth. You can even see it when you look at the topline; the top male's is much more smooth looking, and the male on the bottom..well, although his back angle is nice (but short), you can see that his feathering is sort of ruffled looking...not tight enough (nor is the top actually, but comparing them, the top male's is tighter).

When I sent these pictures to Rip and asked him his opinion (sidebar here - though it's never a good idea to make cull decisions on feedback from pictures, sometimes you can use them as a bit of help when you don't have local folks that you trust, to go over your birds with you), he gave me his feedback, and noted that the top male has much better feather quality than the bottom one.

I just thought it was because the male in the top pic was tighter feathered, but it goes FAR beyond that when evaluating feathers. When you look at them, feathers plucked from the body actually are curved. Have you ever given thought to that? According to Rip, a feather should follow the contour of the bird's body. Too much curve, the bird look...untidy, unkemp, loose feathered. Not enough, and I think that's where that "shredded" look comes from when evaluating the tips of feathers. I also think that plays alongside the thickness/thinness of feathers (the shredding factor).

Anyway, when I saw Rip's comment on the feather quality and that he could see it FROM A PICTURE, I was shocked, and realized it is something I was very interested in learning more about. (Also, my Jersey Giant mentor has been pushing me for a couple of years to learn about it, but I honestly didn't know how to go about it.) Neat stuff, eh?
 
I would like to take part into learning more on feather quality and getting a better understanding on the feather quality of my birds. If Rip is ok with receiving a few feathers through the mail I would definitely like to do this. :)
 
Quote: VERY neat! Thank you for the tutorial...it was most helpful and I'll be giving my chickens the hair eyeball on this as I feed and such. I have run out of ovations or I would have given this post one!
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VERY neat! Thank you for the tutorial...it was most helpful and I'll be giving my chickens the hair eyeball on this as I feed and such. I have run out of ovations or I would have given this post one!
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Bee, take a close look...you'll see I don't allow ovations. It's just a "Wynette" thing, but thanks for the comment!

I just have to say: This is one of the most educational breed threads I follow. Thank you all for sharing your knowledge!
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Nice to see this comment, but remember that - YOU have things to share, also! We all do!
 
I would like to take part into learning more on feather quality and getting a better understanding on the feather quality of my birds. If Rip is ok with receiving a few feathers through the mail I would definitely like to do this.
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Clay, I actually just spoke with Rip about a half hour ago; he's headed to Lima, Ohio as one of the judges for a poultry show there this weekend. I asked him if he would be willing to receive feathers and provide feedback and he laughed and said sure...I do need to get a form done so that folks can fill it out & mail it along with their samples. I'll work on that next week.

But, while it will be very helpful to have an expert take a look & provide feedback, it's still the very best plan to see in person what the feedback is reflective of on a bird. One of the most interesting things to me is that is didn't matter which breed we looked at: feather quality is feather quality, period.
 
Clay, I actually just spoke with Rip about a half hour ago; he's headed to Lima, Ohio as one of the judges for a poultry show there this weekend.  I asked him if he would be willing to receive feathers and provide feedback and he laughed and said sure...I do need to get a form done so that folks can fill it out & mail it along with their samples.  I'll work on that next week.

But, while it will be very helpful to have an expert take a look & provide feedback, it's still the very best plan to see in person what the feedback is reflective of on a bird.  One of the most interesting things to me is that is didn't matter which breed we looked at: feather quality is feather quality, period.


Ok, sounds great Wynette! :)

Rip and me has talked in the passed on him evaluating my SPR and he will see my birds in person in Knoxville, TN at the APA Nationals come December. I am really looking forward to meeting Rip in person. :)

Clayton Grace "Silver Rock"
 
This feather quality discussion was mentioned on another thread and so here I am. I've been trying to learn about feather quality issues for quite some time... how to select for it, what to look for, etc.

Wynette, I don't suppose anybody took a video of that impromptu lesson did they?

I would like very much to be able to get in on this feather evaluation. Will he be giving recommendations too as to how to solve a given problem?

I am not able to attend many shows out here at all but I'm still trying to make headway with my birds. I definitely have birds on both ends of the "broad" scale. Most of the problems I've seen are in the wing feathers. It appears that the barbules on the feather are not strong and the feathers get a shredded appearance, even when they are new. The shaft, in some cases, seems to be brittle as well. I'd like to find out if these things are genetic or nutritional or environmental... probably all of them combined, right?

I read, several years ago, where a specific breeder would take a spray bottle out with him in the evening when he went out to close up. He would mist his birds on the perch. Of course this would cause the birds to preen themselves a bit before going to sleep but I wondered then and still do, does the humidity help the feather quality? He has birds with fantastic feather quality. Ok, his name is Don Schrider and this information was gleaned from an article he wrote in the poultry press when he was writing regularly several years back for the brown leghorn club.

I don't have enough knowledge to be able to contribute to this discussion and I don't raise Plymouth Rocks, but I hope that it is ok if I pop in here and learn and perhaps ask a few questions now and again?


Orpingtons and Wyandottes to name just a couple have much looser feathering than what the PRs and Reds have (or should have).

Interesting that Fred mentioned feather quality. It's something that's not often spoken about, but I've been keen on learning more about it. At a show in Newnan, GA last month, I was very fortunate to be part of a lesson taught by judge Rip Stalvey in regard to feather quality. I had dinner with him and a few other folks the evening before, and was fortunate to sit near him; we spoke about feather quality for a good length of time over dinner, and he offered to stop back out to the fair grounds the next morning and do a seminar of sorts on it.

Boy, it hasn't much been OUT of my gray matter since then.

There is SO much to learn about feather quality, it's not just about how the feather looks, but how it lays, how thick the shaft is, how much (and tightness) of the down, etc. VERY interesting stuff. Matter of fact, there was a bird there that at the outset looked fabulous (and placed quite high) to me; however, once a feather was plucked and Rip pointed a few things out, the quality just wasn't there.

Anyway...for anyone wondering about feathers, I highly, highly recommend learning all that you can about feather quality. It is VERY eye opening!
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Someone else asked about it, Desert Marcy?, anyway are there any recommended sources to study from that will help with choosing breeders in regard to feather quality? As I said, I'm not able to make it to many shows to speak directly with judges.

OH - desertmarcy, I just thought of one other thing. I asked Rip whether he'd be willing to evaluate feathers via mail...I've been EXTREMELY busy these last couple of weeks, but I told him that I'd love to pull together some sort of form that folks could fill out; the form would show where to pull the feather from and give Rip's mailing address. I haven't even started yet, but goodness - this might be a really good thing to share on this thread!

Okay, I'm getting all amped up about feather quality again! I'm going to think about questions for the form, yank some feathers & get them sent in to Rip, I'll take some close-up pics of them before I send them, and I'll share the results that Rip provides on here.
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The Standard, when speaking about a Plymouth Rock feather, says the feather should be long and broad. Let's start there.

We've all seen birds with poor feathering and upon closer examination, the feathers are individual feathers are simply not broad enough. Too narrow. This can give the bird a stringy look that doesn't befit the breed. Broad. That's a strong word. Find two birds in your flock or from two of your strains. Find a bird with the narrowest feathers and one with the broadest feathers. Take the bird outside, 4H style bird handling, like we teach kids.

Let the sun show you the feathering on the hackles, back, cushion, thighs, and tail. Have your eyes see the individual feathers. Do they look broad? Do they look wispy, fuzzy or shredded? (an awful thing on any American) Do they look healthy and able to protect the bird from weather? A dual purpose bird should be feathered with an idea of protecting the bird, so says the Standard. Stroke the bird, in the sun. Feather quality is determined in large part by genetics, but is also supported and/or defeated by nutrition.

When we talk about marking our early feathering chicks, it is interesting to know that the Standard itself mentions this and suggest it as a positive trait of a dual purpose bird. A feathering that has good support of a quality shaft, is wide, feels soft, yet "slick", is a wonderful thing to see and feel.

The Standard also mentions that all Americans should have feathering held moderately close to the body.
I'll be examining my birds to be sure. Feather quality is one of the pressures I wanted to add this year.
 
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