The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[Silver Rock]

Thank you Tom, Scott & Fread for the picture & breeding advice and I will copy your picture and study it.
Below is a picture out of my 1945 Standard of Perfection that I really like and follows along the same lines as your picture but your picture goes more into detail. Thank you!

 

[racertomtom]

I think I’m going to change my goals/strategy slightly this year with Barreds. I agree with Fred that the Barred Rock would be a better utility bird if it feathered and filled out more quickly. I’ve given this a fair amount of thought over the years. I also feel that the slow feathering gene destroys type/tails in the males over the years.

This is a quote from the book, “The Mating and Breeding of Poultry” from 1920. One of the breeders credited for providing information for this book was none other than E.B. Thompson.
Under Barred Plymouth Rock-Cockerel Mating:

“He should be of good size, that is, of standard weight, but should not be more than a pound or two above standard. He should be a fairly quick growing bird, and should be fully matured in form and feather at an age of not less than seven months, as there is a tendency for some strains of this variety to be slow in maturing.”

I wish E.B. had said why he thought this. Genetics was not a word in 1920 but E.B. knew that the slow feathering trait existed.
I’ve had birds like this in the past and the barring was still that of a standard bred barred rock, just not “oh wow” in color. I think I’ll monitor feather/grow rate this year, see if I have any faster feathering birds, and track how these birds turn out from a type and color perspective.

Anyone have thoughts about such a project?

 

[Fred's Hens]

My thoughts fill the pages of this thread, especially early on, Tom, to the boredom of many, I'm sure. LOL

The Barred Rock must be a solid, historic farm bird or whatever it is we are breeding, has become detached from its original purpose and own heritage. Drawing upon the DNA of those who continue to breed for the extreme edge of the fancy, shall we say, will always provide us a valuable resource to dip back into. Thus, there is a place for that strain or style of Barred Rock.

One finally must choose, it seems to me. Perhaps when such birds, of which you speak, will be exhibited, they made get it handed to them by the slow maturing, dazzling Barred birds. At this point, I'm ok with that. If we're going to expand interest in a Barred Rock bred to the standard, we cannot expect to find many takers for birds bred not to begin laying until 38 weeks and males that don't mature until 15 or 16 months. That's fine for some fanciers, but for the world of small holders and homesteaders, there is no future for such birds, in my view.

We might take a look at the Buckeyes. A breed with a similar purpose in Miss Nettie's mind. The breed was brought back from near extinction, not by and for the show tent primarily, but by and for the homesteader. I find it fascinating that the very, very best show winning Buckeyes are rightly still considered rough and ready farmstead fowl. There is, from what I can observe, an insistence in the Buckeye community that the birds be faithful to their origin. I like that.

 

[aoxa]

My thoughts fill the pages of this thread, especially early on, Tom, to the boredom of many, I'm sure. LOL

The Barred Rock must be a solid, historic farm bird or whatever it is we are breeding, has become detached from its original purpose and own heritage. Drawing upon the DNA of those who continue to breed for the extreme edge of the fancy, shall we say, will always provide us a valuable resource to dip back into. Thus, there is a place for that strain or style of Barred Rock.

One finally must choose, it seems to me. Perhaps when such birds, of which you speak, will be exhibited, they made get it handed to them by the slow maturing, dazzling Barred birds. At this point, I'm ok with that. If we're going to expand interest in a Barred Rock bred to the standard, we cannot expect to find many takers for birds bred not to begin laying until 38 weeks and males that don't mature until 15 or 16 months. That's fine for some fanciers, but for the world of small holders and homesteaders, there is no future for such birds, in my view.

We might take a look at the Buckeyes. A breed with a similar purpose in Miss Nettie's mind. The breed was brought back from near extinction, not by and for the show tent primarily, but by and for the homesteader. I find it fascinating that the very, very best show winning Buckeyes are rightly still considered rough and ready farmstead fowl. There is, from what I can observe, an insistence in the Buckeye community that the birds be faithful to their origin. I like that.

My pullets all began laying before 30 weeks. They would be mostly 44 weeks old now. Yes I just counted that out. I've been hatching them since the beginning of February. I have 4 18 month old hens, and the rest are all the 44 weeks, or rather 10.5 months old right now. I separated them mid January. They were laying right away, but held off hatching for 2 weeks to ensure they were pure.

My females grow much faster it seems than the males. However, they are of good weight by 7 months for sure. Just not as filled out in plumage and front end in the males.


This is the son of Jagger's I kept at 6 months old. I got rid of the rest. He looks better than his father at the same age. I look forward to seeing him in his full glory

 

[Silver Rock]

I just noticed the picture I posted above is still being used in the current Standard of Perfection. I am very happy to see some of the older illustrations sill being used. I find myself when needing to study a illustration I always go to one of my older Standards. No disrespect to the current Standard illustrations but I would love to see the next Standard edition go back and use the illustrations by Arthur O. Schilling, Franklane L. Sewell, Louis Paul Graham, Louis Stahmer, I. W. Burgess & J. H. Click.

Not just the illustrations has changed in the current Standard but much valuable breeding information has been taken out of the Standard of today. I would very much like to see the " Instructions To Judges : For Economic Quality of Standard-Bred Fowls " put back into the next edition of the American Standard of Perfection.

 

[Fred's Hens]

My pullets all began laying before 30 weeks. They would be mostly 44 weeks old now. Yes I just counted that out. I've been hatching them since the beginning of February. I have 4 18 month old hens, and the rest are all the 44 weeks, or rather 10.5 months old right now. I separated them mid January. They were laying right away, but held off hatching for 2 weeks to ensure they were pure.

My females grow much faster it seems than the males. However, they are of good weight by 7 months for sure. Just not as filled out in plumage and front end in the males.


This is the son of Jagger's I kept at 6 months old. I got rid of the rest. He looks better than his father at the same age. I look forward to seeing him in his full glory

But, Justine, you line is a Maine based, if I remember correctly, which is precisely why I went there first for vigor and faster maturity.

 

[aoxa]

But, Justine, you line is a Maine based, if I remember correctly, which is precisely why I went there first for vigor and faster maturity.

Not all grew that fast though Fred. A lot were really slow. I got rid of those ones. One was super fast, and the biggest boy I've ever seen, but he wasn't as good, so we found him another home. Got a bunch of wine for him too.

I think I sold 3 others. The rest I sold to the zoo for meat. I could not be bothered to process with that cold winter.. I sent a bunch of roosters off. I will be doing that earlier if they don't make the cut ie: feather out like that ridiculous rooster you told me to cull early on that had hardly any feathers.

When would your cut off be for fully feathered. 8 weeks? 10? I find they do take quite some time to feather out. The two young boys I kept back are fully feathered now. I believe they hatched at the beginning of March.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Can you tell me again the history, as you know it, of your lines?

 

[Wynette]

I just noticed the picture I posted above is still being used in the current Standard of Perfection. I am very happy to see some of the older illustrations sill being used. I find myself when needing to study a illustration I always go to one of my older Standards. No disrespect to the current Standard illustrations but I would love to see the next Standard edition go back and use the illustrations by Arthur O. Schilling, Franklane L. Sewell, Louis Paul Graham, Louis Stahmer, I. W. Burgess & J. H. Click.

Not just the illustrations has chance in the current Standard but much valuable breeding information has been taken out of the Standard of today. I would very much like to see the " Instructions To Judges : For Economic Quality of Standard-Bred Fowls " put back into the next edition of the American Standard of Perfection.

Clay, I know that you're a FB person - are you a member of the APA's FB page? If so, why not make that suggestion on that page? There are several judges that regularly post there (Walt Leonard, Monaco, Rip Stalvey, etc.), and they mentioned recently that any APA members wishing to make suggestions may do so there. (it's been quite lively over there the last couple of days!)

 

[racertomtom]

Man, I really like that “Maine” line. A big breast on that guy at seven months and we’d really have something. I don’t have an issue with egg production out of my Barreds, I’ve never put it to the calendar but the point of lay and rate of lay is comparable to my Ausralorps their pullet year, and the Austalorps are, and were bred to be, brown egg laying machines. The Barreds fall off quite a bit as hens, but I think that’s the way they should be. By then you have a new batch of pullets and new meat for the skillet. My Grandpa raised White Rocks up until the sixties and that was the cycle on his farm. Always eggs, always meat. Grandma sure could make a fine pot of chicken and dumplings out of that corn fed hen that quit laying.

The grow out rate in cockerels is a very different story. I’ve raise White and Barred Rocks side by side pretty much from the beginning. At 6 months, the cockerel pen looks like there are two different breeds of chickens in it. That’s not right. The whites can fill a skillet by then.