The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[gjensen]

Scott, I hatch late every year because I don't want to mess up my show birds by putting them in the breeding pen until March/April. I just hatched my last batch this past weekend. I have never had any trouble with them not achieving their potential size. I think that is a myth or sometimes an excuse for inferior birds. A couple years back I just wanted to see so I hatched some in December and January...then hatched some of the same breed and parents in June. There was no difference in them at maturity. I do fight with Cocci at times but I have had it in January as well so I think that is more of a moisture thing.
Genetics, good food, clean water and space is what determines the potential of your chickens.

Matt

My observation has been similar, mostly. I have not always been breeding, and raising the birds with the mindset I have now. I have been tracking growth rates and size off and on for around 20 years.

Extreme conditions can check their rate of growth, but without additional stressors they tend to ultimately reach a similar size. Eventually. That has been my impression. That is not scientific.

Regardless, when it comes time for selection, I am comparing apples to apples.

I do not believe that every situation is equal. Not everyone manages their birds the same, or has the same environment. I do see it as possible to compound problems to a point where the birds can become stunted.

I have wondered if the quality of feather can be affected in some breeds if periods of stress came at critical points.

I have liked to see my birds reach 65-75% of their adult weight before we would get especially hot. I see it as an ideal. On the other hand, I have not been shy about a later hatch if I chose to. I had July chicks last year, and the average size ended up being similar to the early hatched birds.
My Catalanas are effecting that view. The early hatched birds, molt the first year.

Maybe there is some effect on slow maturing breeds, that do not get to a certain size before the short cod days of winter?

I did wonder what experience that Marcy would have. Her summers are more consistently extreme than ours. I do not think Tucson is quite as bad, but I remember some Phoenix nights that were around 90 at midnight.

 

[Matt1616]

Marcia, I don't remember exactly how many I hatched each time but I would think I had several batches in December/ January and just one batch of about 15-20 in summer.

George, you said "her summers are more consistently extreme than ours". That is not true for my location. On average during the summer our heat index in south Alabama is 10 degrees hotter than Tuscon every day. I just looked on "Weather Underground" and the actual temp in Tuscon is 99 but the heat index is 93. The actual temp in Elberta, Al is 95 and heat index is 111. Humidity is the kicker....

Matt

 

[desertmarcy]

With the slow feathering of the Barred Rocks, the heat here now in a way helps, since I don't have to worry about them when they go outside. I did hatch some GSBRs last year at this same time and the hens seem smaller to me, although that could just have been the breeding. I held back one cockerel from that breeding, and he is a big bird.

Yes, the humidity does much a big difference, although it gets humid in July-August here when our summer rains come, but I'm sure nothing like Alabama. The sun intensity here is one of the highest in the nation, though. That makes it rough, especially since being desert, we don't have big trees unless planted and watered a lot. I am in the process of planting trees around my chicken house area, but it will take years before they are big enough to provide shade. In the meantime, shade cloth is over the entire run area wire that is outside of the metal roof.

It is a big challenge, especially with all the predators, providing enough secure space. Of all the things Matt mentioned, space is the one thing always lacking here for growing out birds. I have acres of land I could let them roam and I think, even if I didn't have to worry about predators, they would still crowd themselves in the shadiest areas to get out of the sun. The little desert trees and bushes just don't make enough shade.

 

[gjensen]

Marcia, I don't remember exactly how many I hatched each time but I would think I had several batches in December/ January and just one batch of about 15-20 in summer.

George, you said "her summers are more consistently extreme than ours". That is not true for my location. On average during the summer our heat index in south Alabama is 10 degrees hotter than Tuscon every day. I just looked on "Weather Underground" and the actual temp in Tuscon is 99 but the heat index is 93. The actual temp in Elberta, Al is 95 and heat index is 111. Humidity is the kicker....

Matt

I did not want to debate it, or try to prove a point. I was trying to illustrate what is true for one is not necessarily true for another. I just commented that I was interested in what Marcy's experience would be. That it might be different than ours.

But . . . I am intimately familiar with both places. I promise you when it gets to 110, no one cares what the heat index is. It is a place you have to experience to appreciate. The day I left there it was 114.

Now I was in Phoenix, just north of Tucson. It is hotter in Phoenix. It is in a valley.That portion of the Sonoran Desert is brutal in the Summer. Much more uncomfortable than the South East or Gulf Coast.
There is more than one factor that makes a place what it is. One is the Sun Index. Another is the Terrain. All of that Rock and Bare ground soaks that heat up and radiates it back at you. It is a lot different when you have trees, the gulf breeze, grass as a yard, and you back isn't against a mountain. It is like the difference between the North side of your house and the south side.
We started work out there at 4am with lights. You had to. It was too much after lunch. it did not matter how tough you were. Everyone out there that worked outside did. You had to. We did not have to do that in south Alabama. No one did.

 

[Matt1616]

I did not want to debate it, or try to prove a point. I was trying to illustrate what is true for one is not necessarily true for another. I just commented that I was interested in what Marcy's experience would be. That it might be different than ours.

But . . . I am intimately familiar with both places. I promise you when it gets to 110, no one cares what the heat index is. It is a place you have to experience to appreciate. The day I left there it was 114.

Now I was in Phoenix, just north of Tucson. It is hotter in Phoenix. It is in a valley.That portion of the Sonoran Desert is brutal in the Summer. Much more uncomfortable than the South East or Gulf Coast.
There is more than one factor that makes a place what it is. One is the Sun Index. Another is the Terrain. All of that Rock and Bare ground soaks that heat up and radiates it back at you. It is a lot different when you have trees, the gulf breeze, grass as a yard, and you back isn't against a mountain. It is like the difference between the North side of your house and the south side.
We started work out there at 4am with lights. You had to. It was too much after lunch. it did not matter how tough you were. Everyone out there that worked outside did. You had to. We did not have to do that in south Alabama. No one did.

I didn't know you lived in South Alabama George...what town?

Matt

 

[desertmarcy]

I did not want to debate it, or try to prove a point. I was trying to illustrate what is true for one is not necessarily true for another. I just commented that I was interested in what Marcy's experience would be. That it might be different than ours.

But . . . I am intimately familiar with both places. I promise you when it gets to 110, no one cares what the heat index is. It is a place you have to experience to appreciate. The day I left there it was 114.

Now I was in Phoenix, just north of Tucson. It is hotter in Phoenix. It is in a valley.That portion of the Sonoran Desert is brutal in the Summer. Much more uncomfortable than the South East or Gulf Coast.
There is more than one factor that makes a place what it is. One is the Sun Index. Another is the Terrain. All of that Rock and Bare ground soaks that heat up and radiates it back at you. It is a lot different when you have trees, the gulf breeze, grass as a yard, and you back isn't against a mountain. It is like the difference between the North side of your house and the south side.
We started work out there at 4am with lights. You had to. It was too much after lunch. it did not matter how tough you were. Everyone out there that worked outside did. You had to. We did not have to do that in south Alabama. No one did.

George, thanks for confirming to others what a hot place it is here! Usually about 5 degrees cooler in Tucson than Phoenix. Still plenty hot. The evaporation from trees and grass makes a difference, even when it is humid. When a cloud comes over and covers the sun, it is like night and day. We can go for months with no clouds. Every day when I go out and check the birds, I look to see if one has fallen from the heat. I have all my males out of the breeding pens, except the Stukel BR male. He is valuable to me so I haven't wanted to move him to the smaller male pens. I want to make sure he LIVES through the summer! I will need that pen to grow out chicks, though. So sooner or later, he and his 4 hens will need to move out of the big pen.

 

[gjensen]

George, thanks for confirming to others what a hot place it is here! Usually about 5 degrees cooler in Tucson than Phoenix. Still plenty hot. The evaporation from trees and grass makes a difference, even when it is humid. When a cloud comes over and covers the sun, it is like night and day. We can go for months with no clouds. Every day when I go out and check the birds, I look to see if one has fallen from the heat. I have all my males out of the breeding pens, except the Stukel BR male. He is valuable to me so I haven't wanted to move him to the smaller male pens. I want to make sure he LIVES through the summer! I will need that pen to grow out chicks, though. So sooner or later, he and his 4 hens will need to move out of the big pen.

The extremes I mentioned was part of what was overlooked. You guys regularly get to 110, and there is a ten degree difference from here to there concerning summer highs. 110 is every 50 -75 years out here, not all of the time. When I say extreme, I do not mean normal summer weather. I think the record in Phoenix is over 120. It is hard to survive 120. I could not imagine trying to raise birds in those extremes. I wonder about them when it gets to 100 here. The good thing for me, where I am is when it is 100 the humidity is usually 40%. It will be more humid in the morning than midday. It is usually under high pressure.

The humidity is tough. It just gets to a point on that rock exposed in the sun, that the humidity cannot make up enough difference. We do not have all of that exposed rock, we have shade, grass etc. You are in an area, that has to be experienced to appreciate.

Matt is right though. Load baled hay on a flat black trailer, in the middle of a field when it is 95 and it feels like 105. It just doesn't get to 115.

It is a beautiful place though. As far as geography, maybe my favorite State. Arizona has a lot. If I lived there raising birds, I would have to move towards Prescott or Flagstaff, LOL. I would visit the Sonoran and Mojave desert in the spring and fall.

Maybe misters can help there. It makes it worse here.

 

[gjensen]

I didn't know you lived in South Alabama George...what town?

Matt

I don't. I did some building there. Also the panhandle of Florida.The first half of my adult life was spent travelling the southeast working. 9 months here and 6 months there. I live in SC. The summers are similar here, but you guys (the southern portion) get a lot warmer sooner and later.

I almost moved there Matt. The company I was working for opened a satellite office in Alabama. I almost took an offer to part of the start up. I decided I was getting too old for that radical of a change, and my family was happy where we are. The money was tempting, and I like it there.

I am going to bow out and let the guys stay catting about the Rocks. I have too much time on my hands.

 

[uphilljill]

Another promising 75 cockerel. Wish I had some pullets to go with them, but for some reason I'm hatching about 80% boys this year. I'm done incubating for the season (more of a space issue than heat) but I just had a hen go broody so gave her 5 more eggs. Happy to let them do the work!

 

[racertomtom]

Another promising 75 cockerel. Wish I had some pullets to go with them, but for some reason I'm hatching about 80% boys this year. I'm done incubating for the season (more of a space issue than heat) but I just had a hen go broody so gave her 5 more eggs. Happy to let them do the work!

That line amazes me. How old is that guy?
It seems like I always have cockerel or pullet years, never 50/50.