The road less traveled...back to good health! They have lice, mites, scale mites, worms, anemia, gl

[texasmomma]

Forgot to reply why I started with the chickens.

We eat a lot of organic food because I don't want to feed my girls hormones and antibiotics. I suppose I did all right as a kid eating those things, but all right isn't good enough for me. My great grandparents lived into their 100's. They lived on the farm, ate what farm people eat and everything was fine. Grandma even had chickens, though I paid little attention to them other than shooing them away when I was trying to get into the back door. She'd often throw out some scratch for them if they got too overwhelming. I don't remember when they left, but it was some time before they left the farm.

Christmas Day when I was 10, Grandpa had a stroke. He was 90 and still farming, though it was just beef cattle and corn. He'd given up the dairy when the government decided his barn wasn't clean enough. From then on, he lived over 10 years, but he wasn't the same. Either was Grandma. I kept that in the back of my mind.

My Grandmother, not great, lived until I was in high school. She was maybe 70 and raised in the city. She had cancer and when they opened her up to fix it, they didn't even try to fix it because it was everywhere. She died on that table. I was away looking at a college with a boyfriend and rue the day I decided to go away during her surgery. I am sure she knew she wouldn't survive it. Her husband, may Grandfather, son of the aforementioned parents, decided not to farm. He lived in the city, too, though city in Iowa is probably a different version that what some others know. He died in his 80's.

My great grandparents lived 20 years more than the next generation. I don't want that to happen to my family. I am betting that food and chemicals and other stuff play a part in these early deaths and I don't like it.

We follow my husband's jobs and this current job has us living in a large city. However, we have a little less than an acre (hush! don't tell the city), and I knew when I saw it that we would have chickens. The house and everything in it flooded about 5 months after we moved in, so we had to make the house our own when rebuilding. The beautiful backyard was no longer an issue because it was destroyed. When my neighbor offered me her old rooster and hens, I said yes.

Well, those hens got super fat on my all the time feed and one just died. This was before I learned about ff. We culled another one because it was mean. I rehomed the rooster because my husband just didn't like him. The remaining three started eating their eggs, had always pecked one another, and were just not laying, so they were culled as well. I should have opened them up to see the disaster that was inside them, but didn't. They were not cared for well before we got them, living in an 8 x 8 dog kennel with another dog house to sleep in. No roosts. There were nests, but they didn't use them. We think they had been eating their eggs for a long while.

Since we had the old chickens, I bought some chicks. Got four of them. 2 black australorps and 2 gold laced wyandottes. Still have all but one of the wyandottes. Still don't like the other wyandotte, though her temperament has changed some since she hurt her comb and we put her into the cage inside the coop for a day. She is still scattered, won't come when called and is flighty as all get out. Eats quite a bit as well. Love the BA's. So does my husband. One has a squirrel tale, though. They are getting ready to lay, but still haven't yet. It's cold for Texas, so maybe they will wait a while yet. The BA's land on my legs and shoulders when I sit down and hang out with them. I love that.

We have some other chicks. I know not to get chicks in the fall, but we're doing it anyway. I hope to have all of them laying in the spring.

We get free range eggs when we can from a guy in my husband's office and they are the best. I am hoping that my eggs are close to his.

So, love the chickens. Hope that my little acre is enough for them. We are working on a bigger coop and place for them to free range. I have the mobile coop over my garden now. I finally decided that we were done gardening for the year and picked the last of the tomatoes and peppers. Still have a pepper plant with flowers on it. Go figure.

Our goal is to become as self sustaining as we can here on this little piece of property. It's not a lot, but while my husband is working, it is necessary for us to be here. Besides, since the house flooded, it's not going to sell for what we paid for it, even with all the renovations. Chickens will provide us eggs, maybe not even enough for our family, and meat now and again. I want to know that what my food has eaten is as good for it as it can be. I also grow my garden with compost and no chemicals. My girls are the same. I don't want any chemicals in them if I don't have to. They have all been super healthy, ftmp, though we did have some food allergies.

The thing about the chickens is that even though we got them for eggs, I'm enjoying having them more than I anticipated.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Delisha -
That little trough feeder in your avatar - the yellow one that you fed the ff to the chicks in - Can you use those for older birds or do they out-grow them pretty young?

 

[mrsamplias]

Yes, a farm a few cities over does that here. The local schools go in the Fall and have apple picking and see the animals. In the Spring, they go and see the babies. The farmer starts with a little mini lecture about farm life. The farm has goats so they make goat ice cream for the kids. She has a mix of ice cream ready before the kids get there, and then she goes through her recipe with each kid adding one item, or stirring, whatever so each student is able to participate, and add to the ice cream maker. After making the ice cream, they go and feed the horses, lambs/sheep, etc. When the feeding/viewing of the bigger animals or apple picking is over, they go and eat the ice cream they made. Every time that we are there, there is a parent who asks about where to buy the chicks/etc., and the farmer says, "Oh we don't sell them..." I always think that it would be a great moneymaker. Show the cute chicks/hens, and make some available, etc., like Bee says!

 

[aoxa]

I have been feeling ill all day and your post made me laugh right out loud. How did your testing go? (Can't help my sense of humor). Thanks. Sue

You don't see the way the text looks? It's all curly and funky.




But always happy to make someone sick feel better

Hope it doesn't last!

 

[aaggjg]

How do you keep the beetles in the plastic storage bin? and where do you keep the bin, my problem is space. and keeping them beetles where they cannot get out. lol

The beetles can not climb up the slippery sides of the plastic bins, so they stay put! I have 2 bins ... one small one (a little bigger then a shoebox) on my kitchen table (it needs to be moved

) and one in my garage....
It really couldn't be easier!! I check them once a week or when I remember just to make sure they don't need a new piece if carrot. You can feed the chickens the beetles that dont form correctly or worms pupa that die etc etc ..... Like I said I am only in month 2 or so but so far so good!!! AND MUCH CHEAPER!!!!!

 

[delisha]

Delisha -
That little trough feeder in your avatar - the yellow one that you fed the ff to the chicks in - Can you use those for older birds or do they out-grow them pretty young?

They make them for all sizes....I should post a picture of the tiny little chick in this pictures. She is too cute.
You can order them online too..I just go to the local Farm and Fleet

 

[Leahs Mom]

They make them for all sizes....I should post a picture of the tiny little chick in this pictures. She is too cute.
You can order them online too..I just go to the local Farm and Fleet

So will the one you have work for adult birds too?

 

[Beekissed]

Ok, so the lessons I have attempted to learn from the OT quiz have begun to bubble and ferment in my spirit.
I am ready to start asking questions, now, more specific to my DP BA flock, than to the demonstration bird, the egg machines.

I am watching everyone closely for desirable characteristics, and for flock behavior (foraging ability/behavior, relationship to the roo, pecking order, flocking instinct, predator evasion, etc). At the moment, I am not exclusively evaluating egg laying, because several are now coming back into laying after molting between August and now.
I do see some hens with smaller combs than others. Is this a strong indicator of being less-properly-developed than one with a larger comb? They are all very bright, vibrant red, just some are smaller and some are quite large.
Also, I have one hen who is just turned a year. She was my first broody hatched, along with her "brother" who was culled for aggression last Summer. As an "only child" from that hatch, she became bottom of pecking order, and was severely pecked by her flockmates. She has recovered, but still continues to lack luster, despite 5 weeks on FF (while everyone else looks like I ordered them from a magazine!). Now the 10 chicks are no longer under their Mother's care, she has taken to pecking and bossing them around. I am not keen on her behavior or condition and am considering her first for cull, just after the 3 not needed baby roos.

Help me understand, Bee, if you would, the physical characteristics I am looking for with my BAs. I am not concerned about SQ qualities, only utility. (Otherwise I would let the BA breeders thread tell me to chuck them all down the pan, and start over with non-hatchery stock!)
I am going to cull the roos and Penelope the second week of January. I am keeping a close eye on everyone else, for a Spring cull, so this information will be helpful. Thanks, in advance.

1. This is where the SOP does mean something, I'm afraid. If you use the normal comb and wattle size for a breed~keep in mind the high bred SOP gals are going to have bigger, better everything than our hatchery gals~as a gauge for what is normal, then you can look at your birds in a whole new light. Here's a pic of a regular, utility type BA from the hatchery:

Her comb and wattle size is about par for the course and it's okay if they are larger but smaller, more pale, less coloring in that face could indicate a bird that has not developed well due to just bad reproductive genetics. In other words, if the only thing that distinguishes her from an immature pullet is her body size, she is either not going to lay or will never lay well. There will always be exceptions to the rule but in my chicken life, I've culled more with the smaller comb/wattles for their breed standard than I have of those with a normal sized development and color.

2. This behavior not only comes from the rooster but the hens as well, when indicating one that is not a layer. I've never seen a hen singled out in that manner that was worth saving. Either they don't socialize well, don't forage well, don't lay well(which always seems to come right along with these other traits) or they are constantly broody and you never really get eggs from this bird because of it. I've also noticed what you have noticed...these are the same birds that also make very poor mothers. It sounds like she also went broody out of season, another thing to watch for. Abnormal hormone function is a big indicator of how sporadic her laying will be in a year's time.

3. If you'll notice the bird in the pic above, she is about normal for what to expect and look for in a working, utility, hatchery BA. She has a broad back that doesn't taper too soon in the tail region. Her tail is not too high. Now, I'm going to use a sexual reference here, so please know that I'm not saying this to shock or offend, but....whenever a woman is on all fours and arches the back, the vaginal walls are drawn tighter the higher the tailbone goes. Now, apply that to the oviduct of a chicken...the higher the tail, the more physical obstruction to large egg development and ease of lay~at least, that's my theory...I'm sure this doesn't always hold true...I've had plenty of lay from perky tailed birds. Look at the three body styles between the hatchery bird above, the SOP girl below and my Black Betty below her.

Unfortunately, I don't think Betty will ever be great shakes as a layer, and though I love that perky tail, for her breed I know it bodes no good when coming to egg size or good reproductive structures(again, my theory, not based on scientific fact).



Compared to:



If you look at the SOP gal, she has a deeper, fuller chest cavity...this means she has more room for all her organs, leaving more room in the rear for larger ovary, ease of egg delivery through the oviduct. The wider hips also provide a better structure. It doesn't always follow that this body structure will have bigger and more eggs, but it's a good indicator...they are built better for it in all ways and her genetics has prepared this girl to be a producer.

The hatchery gal up top has a passable chest but a tad less deep and full than the SOP. Betty has a very flat lower chest. See? A full breast in a chicken isn't all about the meat...there's always a reason for these body structures.

Look at the chest and length of back on Ruby...one of her few good features:




Now look at what that meant in the length of her body cavity...let it be known that, when she was laying, Ruby laid a very large egg. But..her egg structures went too far in the opposite direction..she had an over bite, if you will, on her vent. She laid large eggs but was having trouble keeping the feces from leaking from her anus all the time, creating a place for bacteria to grow. It also prevented her from being bred properly and increased the chances of bacterial infection in her reproductive tract/eggs/chicks. As indicated by her being the only bird that didn't recover promptly from the gleet infection.

Structures and body types always mean something and this is why when you hear a breeder talking about back line, chest, tail set, etc. it is all relative to their ability to produce eggs, be more fertile, have a muscle length and development~if that is their trait~ etc.




Now, all that I've said needs to be taken as coming from someone who is not a breeder but can only tell you what I've noticed or conclusions I have made over the years by dealing with this breed and similar breeds. There are always, always exceptions to the general rules...always. Those exceptions don't need to be culled but you won't want to breed them...they won't also produce little exceptions, IME.

Other things to look for in a BA? Docile and sweet, thrifty on feed, excellent laying of large pale brown/tan eggs, broodiness is good but rare in the breed lines from hatcheries, fierce broodies, good mothering, good feathering with a green sheen, moderately meaty build but not as large as a WR. Great foragers, longevity of laying...the usual. They are the longest and most consistent layers I've had from all the DP breeds I've known and still producing better than most other hatchery birds clear up into 7 yrs and beyond.

 

[delisha]

Quote: Nope..they would get stuck. The adult ones are green. This one is way too small and they would sling it all over the place.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Just had a strange thing happen.

I have some redworms in an indoor worm bin that I'm growing for the ladies. They LOVE readworms out in the mulch pile and everywhere they can get their beaks on them.

So...I grabbed a few from the worm bins for the first time and wanted to just put down a single worm for each one, which I did. At first they all ran to participate then they stopped. No one would eat a single worm.

Now I have brought regular outdoor worms to them and they fight over them. But not these. Must be something they're smelling that they don't like. They smelled very strongly of the compost they were in...maybe there's something in the compost they don't like.

A very strange reaction.


Now, Aoxa, where do you find the rich text editor?