The road less traveled...back to good health! They have lice, mites, scale mites, worms, anemia, gl

[Rachel'sFlock]

Wow, this is such a wonderful and informative thread. Thank you, BeeKissed and others who have helped to keep it going (at an alarming rate!)
It is like a good book that just keeps being written.

I am so moved by your decision to restore this flock, and your willingness to give more time and treatment to some who would have been culled immediately in other circumstances.

In my situation, we live in the PNW, during the driest late-summer in about 50 years. We actually had a wildfire locally, which made people here in the perpetually damp vicinity think they were hallucinating.
I live on about 3 acres and have 10 adult chickens (9 hens and a roo) and 10 7 week old peeps. For the whole of summer they have spent their days free-ranging in the evergreen forest and clearing which comprises our land. Our neighbor, up the hill also has chickens who free-range.
About a month ago, a coyote got one of our cats. We have had no predation for over a year before that. Then, a few weeks ago, one got one of my neighbors hens and also wounded her rooster. A week ago, I watched a coyote come out of the brush across the driveway and snag one of my hens. Edna, the hen, escaped with injuries, but survived the attack and came home, in time for bed that night.
I ran out of the house screaming at the coyote, and apparently scared it off for that day, but I have been uber paranoid since then. I spoke to the neighbors up the road about dealing with the predator, but they have decided to shine it on, still allowing their chooks out to range and not worry about it.
I, on the other hand, have had my flock penned in since the day of the attack. I leave the windows open night and day to listen for drama, and have never really relaxed, since.
I am not in a position to install any sort of electric netting, or make any costly changes to my life at all.
It is obvious to me the chickens are bored (though it is raining like crazy, now) and I long to allow them to range again.

It has been suggested the coyotes may have moved back up the mountain, with the rain, but this sounds like wishful thinking to me.
I am kinda getting nutty about this...besides carrying a loaded .22 around with me, does anyone have any suggestions? I am trying to train my almost-year-old dog to be watchful of the chickens, but I don't really trust her alone with them, either.

The other thing I could use some advice about is treating my wounded hen. She is perky, hungry, curious and moving at regular speed again. She acts fine, but continues to have a nasty wound on her back end. I have put neosporin on it, but each time I catch her to treat it causes her immense distress. Of course it also upsets everyone else, as well, particularly then rooster and the Mamma hen.
Should I be treating the wound daily, or should I be leaving her alone? She seems fine, but for the wound. It does not appear to be infected, and she does not seem to be in pain (tho she must be!) She had the "tired eyes" look for the first few days, but now seems very much normal in that respect. If she weren't banded, I would have to be very close to her to know which hen it was who had been wounded.
I know this isn't a wound-treatment thread, but I would like a natural perspective on handling this type of situation. It is only our second non-lethal injury, so I could use some advice. Last time, it was an 8 wk old roo baby who literally scalped himself on a nail in the coop. I slathered him with neospirin a couple times and then had to leave town for a week. When I came home, I couldn't tell him from the other 4 roo babies in the pen.
I want to dump peroxide on her every day, but have refrained. Should I be disinfecting her often?
Any thoughts???

Thanks in advance for the thoughts, and in retrospect for the wonderful thread and all the information I have gleaned from reading 95+ pages of experience!!!

 

[galanie]

Me first me first! NuStock! Back up a few pages and we discussed it. Well maybe more than a few. This thread has tended to add like 15 pages a day or something.

 

[Rachel'sFlock]

Me first me first! NuStock! Back up a few pages and we discussed it. Well maybe more than a few. This thread has tended to add like 15 pages a day or something.

was this for my situation?
I don't have any NuStock, but I have read all 96 pages extolling its virtues! I have peroxide and triple antibiotic ointment. And a hen who clearly prefers to heal on her own.

 

[Beekissed]

It sounds like you are between a rock and a hard place with the predators. I don't know your financial situation but I have gotten my money's worth and more from my wireless electric fence for my dogs. It costs me around $280(PetSafe brand from Petco) 7-8 years ago and it's still in top form and has kept my dogs confined to the property without fail. This means they guard where they are supposed to guard and don't get lured off into coyote range where they can get killed by an ambush.

It was also worth it to me to take the time to train my free dogs...yes, both were free dogs that were in bad situations when I found them. They worked hard every day and were the best companions and work partners ever. The older one was part GP and didn't need one ounce of training, came to me fully obedience trained and good with livestock. The younger came later as a 2 mo. old pup, a mixed Lab/BC cross, half starved and full of worms. By the age of 5 mo. he was guarding chickens full time with the older dog, killed his first coon by himself at 5 mo., killed a ground hog by himself a few weeks later and has never laid a tooth on a chicken. It took all of 20 min. to train him to chickens and he is still their best guardian/friend now at the age of 6 yrs.

We lived in coyote and bear country, now just live in coyote country, and could hear them hunting all around us but they never came in to the property...and still won't, even with my one, lonely dog(Lucy got too old and in pain from arthritis and had to be put down). He's smart enough to bark and threaten, but not chase after the 'yotes. It also helps that he has a boundary in which he must remain. I've never lost a chicken to a four legged predator and only one to a winged predator, a GHO that caught her sleeping in the barn loft, and a few chicks to a legless predator, a black snake.

The wounded chicken sounds like she is doing great. I'd just keep a check on the wound that it doesn't get a pocket of infection, but other than that, if she is healing and looking fine, I'd leave it be. Some of the best healed wounds are done so by sunshine, fresh air and time. If the other birds start to bother the wound I'd put some Blue Kote or NuStock on it and just watch over her to see if it works.

 

[Bulldogma]

The Prep-H really worked! She is not so swollen and red inside her vent and I cannot see her cloaca tonight. I just hope it stays that way. It doesn't help that she lays such large eggs. Went ahead and applied more Prep-H for good measure and also some NS on the rim and corners of the vent, just for kicks and giggles. Gave her OLE dose and put her back on the roost...I bet she is getting pretty fed up with people touching her butt!

Soaked Stumpy's(AKA MS) feet in epsom salts tonight and massaged that gland, removed a little debris and reapplied NS. Her legs now show no evidence of scale mites and are nice and yellow...no more pale legs!

Thrilled to read these awesome updates on the Gnarly Bunch! I totally believe you about smelling infection. I used to work as a vet tech and can smell the difference between a yeast infection (like in a cat's ear), a general infection... and of course gangrene has it's own awful smell... had a dog in the clinic with the beginnings of gangrene and I was pregnant at the time! I was lucky not to have much morning sickness, but smells could always set me off!!! Wheeew!

 

[Rachel'sFlock]

It sounds like you are between a rock and a hard place with the predators. I don't know your financial situation but I have gotten my money's worth and more from my wireless electric fence for my dogs. It costs me around $280(PetSafe brand from Petco) 7-8 years ago and it's still in top form and has kept my dogs confined to the property without fail. This means they guard where they are supposed to guard and don't get lured off into coyote range where they can get killed by an ambush.

It was also worth it to me to take the time to train my free dogs...yes, both were free dogs that were in bad situations when I found them. They worked hard every day and were the best companions and work partners ever. The older one was part GP and didn't need one ounce of training, came to me fully obedience trained and good with livestock. The younger came later as a 2 mo. old pup, a mixed Lab/BC cross, half starved and full of worms. By the age of 5 mo. he was guarding chickens full time with the older dog, killed his first coon by himself at 5 mo., killed a ground hog by himself a few weeks later and has never laid a tooth on a chicken. It took all of 20 min. to train him to chickens and he is still their best guardian/friend now at the age of 6 yrs.

We lived in coyote and bear country, now just live in coyote country, and could hear them hunting all around us but they never came in to the property...and still won't, even with my one, lonely dog(Lucy got too old and in pain from arthritis and had to be put down). He's smart enough to bark and threaten, but not chase after the 'yotes. It also helps that he has a boundary in which he must remain. I've never lost a chicken to a four legged predator and only one to a winged predator, a GHO that caught her sleeping in the barn loft, and a few chicks to a legless predator, a black snake.

The wounded chicken sounds like she is doing great. I'd just keep a check on the wound that it doesn't get a pocket of infection, but other than that, if she is healing and looking fine, I'd leave it be. Some of the best healed wounds are done so by sunshine, fresh air and time. If the other birds start to bother the wound I'd put some Blue Kote or NuStock on it and just watch over her to see if it works.

Thanks for the idea about the electric fencing. $280 is a long way out of my price range, but I am going to keep working with my Stella Dog to become more at ease with the chickens and vice versa. I believe she is my best defense on my budget.
As for Edna, I kind of thought the same thing. The other chooks are not bothering the wound or the bare patch where coyote plucked her back feathers (they absolutely saved her life, along with her crazy, screaming Flock Mistress, me).
She seems to be improving and I felt like just keeping an eye on her and the wound might be the best thing.
Thanks a million for the advice and, of course, for this thread.

 

[delisha]

How about pee? I know, it sounds crazy, however its free and it is a temporary fix.It works for other predators too. How I got rid of a few out of the area is that I purchased a few tennis balls and soaked them in pee and ammonia. They are gathered up at spring and...re freshened. Reading about coyotes might help in your decision for other help.

http://icwdm.org/handbook/carnivor/Coyotes.asp

 

[bobbieschicks]

Hi Beekissed -

I so appreciate your straightforward advice and wisdom! I've been reading this thread and the FF thread - and I'm very interested in going the more natural route. I want my girls (and boys) to be as healthy as possible - and I definitely don't want to have to keep treating them with medicines if I can avoid it.

Presently I have 14 chickens of varying ages from 10 week olds to 67 week olds. I have a 5'x10' raised coop for night time with a 15' x 10' secure run around it that I hardly ever use. There is an additional less secure 50' x 25' run that I rarely keep them penned in. I prefer to let them roam about the 1 acre yard and find what they please to eat/do. I feed the older ones Layena Crumbles & oyster shell in containers that they have access to at all times. The younger ones have bowls of Chick Starter when they were very young and switched to Flock Raiser at 8 weeks old. I've noticed that the older girls feathers are looking a little ratty lately and my oldest is going through a severe molt right now. I've also noticed 5 of my 8 layers have what I call "dirty butts" - and they have a white creamy substance that comes on their eggs from time to time. I'm thinking it is gleet - and I've ordered the Nustock for treating it. I've put the ACV in their waterer - but the kind I have doesn't have the mother - so I will get some of that soon. I have a manure box with roost overhead and the box is filled with Sweet PDZ which makes it easy to scoop daily. I do a modified deep litter on the floor - in that I use pine shavings and keep it stirred - adding more shavings until it builds up and spring comes. Then I clean it all out and start again.

The only really bad incident so far was that over the summer maybe one or two of my girls had roundworms in their manure. Here's the thread on that https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...found-in-the-manure-box-update-yes-roundworms I treated the flock with Valbazen because I didn't know what else to do to help them and that was the advice. Should I have done something different to treat them after finding the worms? I guess I don't really understand why they would suddenly develop worms - unless they had been developing them over time and this was just an outpouring of them somehow. Would having a FF diet help reduce their chances of getting such worms?

I've ordered the following that will hopefully get here soon - Nustock (although I see now I can make it and will try that once the tube runs out) and Bragg ACV (and I plan to make more with regular ACV). My goal is to start feeding FF once I get the Bragg and to treat the girls with Nustock for what may be gleet. I think I'll start doing FF with the layer feed for the layers and the Flock Raiser for the littles. Should I slowly add or change things or just go to it right away?

Thank you!

 

[chickachee]

It sounds like you are between a rock and a hard place with the predators. I don't know your financial situation but I have gotten my money's worth and more from my wireless electric fence for my dogs. It costs me around $280(PetSafe brand from Petco) 7-8 years ago and it's still in top form and has kept my dogs confined to the property without fail. This means they guard where they are supposed to guard and don't get lured off into coyote range where they can get killed by an ambush.

It was also worth it to me to take the time to train my free dogs...yes, both were free dogs that were in bad situations when I found them. They worked hard every day and were the best companions and work partners ever. The older one was part GP and didn't need one ounce of training, came to me fully obedience trained and good with livestock. The younger came later as a 2 mo. old pup, a mixed Lab/BC cross, half starved and full of worms. By the age of 5 mo. he was guarding chickens full time with the older dog, killed his first coon by himself at 5 mo., killed a ground hog by himself a few weeks later and has never laid a tooth on a chicken. It took all of 20 min. to train him to chickens and he is still their best guardian/friend now at the age of 6 yrs.

Bee,

You and I have PM'd a few times back and forth about my dog(s) and your wireless PetSafe system (which I think we're going to get by the way). Can you give me a few (more) ideas as to how to train my dog(s) to leave the chickens alone/guard them? My Lab killed one of my chickens a week ago - just whenI thought he was doing fairly well at leaving them alone, so I'm back to square one. Just a training hint or two?? Please?

Thanks,
Sheila

 

[Beekissed]

Hi Beekissed -

I so appreciate your straightforward advice and wisdom! I've been reading this thread and the FF thread - and I'm very interested in going the more natural route. I want my girls (and boys) to be as healthy as possible - and I definitely don't want to have to keep treating them with medicines if I can avoid it.

Presently I have 14 chickens of varying ages from 10 week olds to 67 week olds. I have a 5'x10' raised coop for night time with a 15' x 10' secure run around it that I hardly ever use. There is an additional less secure 50' x 25' run that I rarely keep them penned in. I prefer to let them roam about the 1 acre yard and find what they please to eat/do. I feed the older ones Layena Crumbles & oyster shell in containers that they have access to at all times. The younger ones have bowls of Chick Starter when they were very young and switched to Flock Raiser at 8 weeks old. I've noticed that the older girls feathers are looking a little ratty lately and my oldest is going through a severe molt right now. I've also noticed 5 of my 8 layers have what I call "dirty butts" - and they have a white creamy substance that comes on their eggs from time to time. I'm thinking it is gleet - and I've ordered the Nustock for treating it. I've put the ACV in their waterer - but the kind I have doesn't have the mother - so I will get some of that soon. I have a manure box with roost overhead and the box is filled with Sweet PDZ which makes it easy to scoop daily. I do a modified deep litter on the floor - in that I use pine shavings and keep it stirred - adding more shavings until it builds up and spring comes. Then I clean it all out and start again.

The only really bad incident so far was that over the summer maybe one or two of my girls had roundworms in their manure. Here's the thread on that https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...found-in-the-manure-box-update-yes-roundworms I treated the flock with Valbazen because I didn't know what else to do to help them and that was the advice. Should I have done something different to treat them after finding the worms? I guess I don't really understand why they would suddenly develop worms - unless they had been developing them over time and this was just an outpouring of them somehow. Would having a FF diet help reduce their chances of getting such worms?

I've ordered the following that will hopefully get here soon - Nustock (although I see now I can make it and will try that once the tube runs out) and Bragg ACV (and I plan to make more with regular ACV). My goal is to start feeding FF once I get the Bragg and to treat the girls with Nustock for what may be gleet. I think I'll start doing FF with the layer feed for the layers and the Flock Raiser for the littles. Should I slowly add or change things or just go to it right away?

Thank you!

I'd change from doing a modified deep litter into doing a true deep litter and let those droppings fall and start developing a good deep litter system. This will help with worm ova that are shed and keep them from being recycled, as the beneficial bugs in the deep litter prey upon pests larvae.

I wouldn't use a commercial dewormer as all it does is let the strong worms survive. Those that survive the chemical will only reproduce to make more worms that are able to withstand the chemical. This requires that you keep switching your chemicals around and eventually you have naturally selected a super worm to live in your chickens that can survive any chemical preparation that you throw at it.

I'd use garlic, pumpkin seeds, soap...all things that worms do not build up a resistance or tolerance to. I'd start FF...it does indeed cultivate a bowel environment that is not conducive to worm growth and reproduction.

If the soils in your runs and pens are barren, I'd recondition those soils, even though you don't use them often, the chickens are still on them when they live.

I wouldn't add things slowly...I'd start the FF as soon as you can, the ACV in the water, I'd see about getting some pumpkin seeds in them...should be easy this time of year. If they don't want to eat them, dry them and grind them up and put it in the feed. Garlic is easy...garlic powder sprinkled on the feed.

If you use soap in the water for worms, I use Shaklee's soap...it's all natural and made of soy plant proteins and it only requires the tiniest drop, as it is concentrated to the max. If you think it isn't safe for animals, Joel Salatin uses it exclusively for all this animals, I've used it for mine a time or two when I got cows that needed reconditioning from an outside source...and I've even ingested it myself before I gave some to the animals. They used to use Shaklee's to fatten turkey and cattle over in Europe and using it as a soap was secondary.

My granny used to feed her pigs and chickens her dish water...which had lye soap in it. She said it made them healthier but I doubt she knew just why. The soap acts as a surfactant to internal parasites, dissolving the protective coating of oil on their skins and allowing the gastric juices to kill them. I can show you pics of a cow that had Shaklee's and ACV for reconditioning at my place that would blow your mind. You wouldn't believe it was the same cow and in such a short amount of time.

Let us know what you tried and the results?