The supplemental light debate

[CountryGirl1120]

That's a totally different discussion with it's own many variables.
One huge variable is that many 'breeders' are just hatching out of hatchery stock and selling them.

Im just full of questions!

Can you tell me about some of your results compared with your light schedules?

 

[newchickfl]

I don't use light but I only have a small flock of 8 in suburban florida so I just let them do their natural thing. If I had acreage than it would be different as I would have more for a different reason...but until I move they will just be my spoiled chicky chicks.

 

[aart]

Quote: Well, I kind of already did...I came to no concrete conclusions, other than no guarantees on winter eggs and they do need a rest to molt.
We'll see if I have any other conclusions if I don't use lights for the next 3 winters.

You'd have to do very tightly designed studies to have quantitative results worth citing,
which I believe is beyond the typical BY chickeneers capacity and/or desire.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

I have never used lights. What I found out last year was a higher protein feed allowed them to molt quickly and recover. I actually had hens resuming in December where typically it took until February. So for me it was more important to feed correctly.

I always buy my replacements so they start about November to December when everyone else has quit, so I don't get a gap in production.

The hens that resumed sooner were also Ancona, so keeping egg producing breeds is also another thing to factor in. Age of your hens can also affect production.

I have personally had better production out of hatchery birds than breeder birds.

I have the luxury of not requiring anything out of my hens. They aren't exactly pets, nor are they solely livestock, but I am from a farming background so I am a bit more practical. From what I read on lighting it needs to be precisely managed to do it correctly. I have better things that I want to do with my time, so it's not for me.

You shouldn't worry what others think of how you manage your chickens as long as you aren't inhumane. Many who think that pushing production is cruel, will often allow sick birds to suffer because they won't cull. I like chicken keeping because everyone can do it in their own manner. So do what you want to do.

 

[CountryGirl1120]

I don't use light but I only have a small flock of 8 in suburban florida so I just let them do their natural thing. If I had acreage than it would be different as I would have more for a different reason...but until I move they will just be my spoiled chicky chicks.

How do you find their egg production is during the winter months without light?

Well, I kind of already did...I came to no concrete conclusions, other than no guarantees on winter eggs and they do need a rest to molt.
We'll see if I have any other conclusions if I don't use lights for the next 3 winters.

You'd have to do very tightly designed studies to have quantitative results worth citing,
which I believe is beyond the typical BY chickeneers capacity and/or desire.

Yes it probably is. It would be interesting if someone decided to though. Im sorry I guess I misunderstood or didnt phrase my question right. You said you had used lights with varying applications and varying results. I wasnt sure if perhaps you had seen something common between all of them or not.

I have never used lights. What I found out last year was a higher protein feed allowed them to molt quickly and recover. I actually had hens resuming in December where typically it took until February. So for me it was more important to feed correctly.

I always buy my replacements so they start about November to December when everyone else has quit, so I don't get a gap in production.

The hens that resumed sooner were also Ancona, so keeping egg producing breeds is also another thing to factor in. Age of your hens can also affect production.

I have personally had better production out of hatchery birds than breeder birds.

I have the luxury of not requiring anything out of my hens. They aren't exactly pets, nor are they solely livestock, but I am from a farming background so I am a bit more practical. From what I read on lighting it needs to be precisely managed to do it correctly. I have better things that I want to do with my time, so it's not for me.

You shouldn't worry what others think of how you manage your chickens as long as you aren't inhumane. Many who think that pushing production is cruel, will often allow sick birds to suffer because they won't cull. I like chicken keeping because everyone can do it in their own manner. So do what you want to do.

Thank you. I certainly am going to keep doing what I would like to do. I have some egg producing breeds and then I have some that I like solely for looks which are my Brahmas. I cant get over them. The feeding to get them to molt quickly and recover is interesting. I have never thought of doing that. Did you find your hatchery birds and breeder quality laid for the same amount of years?

I am not of a farming background but to me chickens are food. I wont cage them up but if they arent producing eggs I wont keep them around as pets. I went into this with that mindset to help my daughter learn where food comes from and wanting to raise my own food so I mean there is a bit of attachment for me but I will still do what needs to be done. I am lucky with the fact that my dad put my light on a timer so they get about 8 extra hours a day. And while in winter I still wont get as many eggs as I do in spring and summer when the days are longer its still better than 1 a day for me.

 

[newchickfl]

Their production doesn't go down that much....maybe just a day or two more between eggs for a couple my buff orpington doesnt slow down at all....but we don't really get cold here I'm in central florida

 

[lazy gardener]

Thank you so much for the information! I really like learning all this stuff that I never considered. I heard chickens where the most productive in their first 2 years so I myself get new birds every 2 years. Not to mention with predator loss I really needed them this year anyways. I was down to 5 from 10 in 2 years and with 7 people or more to feed and me an avid baker it was needed. If you ever do proper trials I would be interested in the findings.
Let me know how that works for you. Yes everyone will have there own opinion and I like to hear everyones. What I dont like is trying to make someone seem like they are a bad person for not having the same opinion.

Chicken molting. Ugh. I always think something got a bird when I see the feathers everywhere. And I view the molt for them as a rest. I never use feather fixer or up their protein during that to try to make the feathers come back faster. Just let it happen on its own. Usually during this time I dont sell any extra eggs I have I keep all the goodness I get for myself.

I have some 2 year olds and some 6 month pullets and even though I probably dont need the light with the pullets I plan on providing it anyways to help the 2 year olds out. Theres 3 that are safe from the crock pot this year. The other 2 not so much.

Has anyone noticed a difference in how long breeds produce eggs when comparing hatchery to breeder quality?

To make a long story out of my previous short story: the first winter, I had 5 pullets. 3 EE, and 1 BLS, 1 RIR from home hatch. Only one bird produced through the entire winter: one EE faithfully gave me 3 eggs/week. The rest went on holiday. The RIR blew her feathers off in the coldest part of the winter. She looked like she belonged in the poultry case at my local Hannaford. After that winter, I decided not to keep free loaders the following winter. Provided light, starting in late fall, ramping up gradually. Had eggs all winter. I think the flock was 16 female, 1 cockrel. Same RIR blew her cover mid winter. So, no change at least for her in molt pattern with/without light. Last winter, 24 layers. Light provided in new coop. Decent production. I intend to provide light again this year. However, I depart from convention in this as I do with so many other aspects of poultry keeping: I let them experience the shortening day length till they almost all stop laying. Then, in early November, I start ramping up the light. So, they get a bit of a break, and I still get eggs. I use 7W CFL on a timer. Seems to be enough to keep them laying. An other departure from convention: I provide my light in split sessions. In order to give them the 14 hours, I put light on timer: 6:30 AM - 8:30 AM and 3:30 PM to 8:30 PM. This increases the "brightness factor a bit during the gloomy winter days. And if it stays gloomy for a longer period, I can always leave their light on all day. I know "they say" that you should provide all of the light in the morning, allowing a natural twilight period at the end of the day, so the birds don't get caught stumbling in the dark after lights out. Perhaps I have smart birds. But, they have always managed to be on the perch before lights out. And, if I followed the "they say" crowd, I'd have a rooster crowing at 2:30 AM. No thank you. I will not get up to feed at that hour. I will not open the pop door at that hour. Nor would THAT be prudent! And I think my neighbors like my lighting schedule better.

That's a totally different discussion with it's own many variables.
One huge variable is that many 'breeders' are just hatching out of hatchery stock and selling them.

I agree with you on that aspect Aart. I think that a lot of the locals are apt to sell "heritage" birds simply because they have a roo and a hen of a particular breed regardless of where those birds came from. Not to say that hatchery stock can't be improved and returned to heritage quality. Because it's been documented with Delawares, that within 3 generations, hatchery stock can make great strides toward their former heritage SOP if handled with a breeder who KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING.

 

[CountryGirl1120]

To make a long story out of my previous short story: the first winter, I had 5 pullets. 3 EE, and 1 BLS, 1 RIR from home hatch. Only one bird produced through the entire winter: one EE faithfully gave me 3 eggs/week. The rest went on holiday. The RIR blew her feathers off in the coldest part of the winter. She looked like she belonged in the poultry case at my local Hannaford. After that winter, I decided not to keep free loaders the following winter. Provided light, starting in late fall, ramping up gradually. Had eggs all winter. I think the flock was 16 female, 1 cockrel. Same RIR blew her cover mid winter. So, no change at least for her in molt pattern with/without light. Last winter, 24 layers. Light provided in new coop. Decent production. I intend to provide light again this year. However, I depart from convention in this as I do with so many other aspects of poultry keeping: I let them experience the shortening day length till they almost all stop laying. Then, in early November, I start ramping up the light. So, they get a bit of a break, and I still get eggs. I use 7W CFL on a timer. Seems to be enough to keep them laying. An other departure from convention: I provide my light in split sessions. In order to give them the 14 hours, I put light on timer: 6:30 AM - 8:30 AM and 3:30 PM to 8:30 PM. This increases the "brightness factor a bit during the gloomy winter days. And if it stays gloomy for a longer period, I can always leave their light on all day. I know "they say" that you should provide all of the light in the morning, allowing a natural twilight period at the end of the day, so the birds don't get caught stumbling in the dark after lights out. Perhaps I have smart birds. But, they have always managed to be on the perch before lights out. And, if I followed the "they say" crowd, I'd have a rooster crowing at 2:30 AM. No thank you. I will not get up to feed at that hour. I will not open the pop door at that hour. Nor would THAT be prudent! And I think my neighbors like my lighting schedule better.

I agree with you on that aspect Aart. I think that a lot of the locals are apt to sell "heritage" birds simply because they have a roo and a hen of a particular breed regardless of where those birds came from. Not to say that hatchery stock can't be improved and returned to heritage quality. Because it's been documented with Delawares, that within 3 generations, hatchery stock can make great strides toward their former heritage SOP if handled with a breeder who KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING.

Thank you for all the info! I also use the split session method as you call it. I think my light does 4 to 8 in both the am and evening and I have not had any issues. I dont blame you I would not get up that early either. Though I do find myself getting up a tad earlier in the winter to collect whatever eggs may be there before they freeze

 

[lazy gardener]

Thank you for all the info! I also use the split session method as you call it. I think my light does 4 to 8 in both the am and evening and I have not had any issues. I dont blame you I would not get up that early either. Though I do find myself getting up a tad earlier in the winter to collect whatever eggs may be there before they freeze

Last winter, I only had 1 egg freeze. I find that if I get out there several times/day to gather eggs, keep lots of hay in the boxes, they are less likely to freeze. I think that having a larger flock helps also b/c they generate more body heat, and the nests are more likely to have a hen setting in them.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

How do you find their egg production is during the winter months without light?
Yes it probably is.  It would be interesting if someone decided to though.  Im sorry I guess I misunderstood or didnt phrase my question right.  You said you had used lights with varying applications and varying results.  I wasnt sure if perhaps you had seen something common between all of them or not.  
Thank you.  I certainly am going to keep doing what I would like to do.  I have some egg producing breeds and then I have some that I like solely for looks which are my Brahmas.  I cant get over them.  The feeding to get them to molt quickly and recover is interesting.  I have never thought of doing that.  Did you find your hatchery birds and breeder quality laid for the same amount of years?  

I am not of a farming background but to me chickens are food.  I wont cage them up but if they arent producing eggs I wont keep them around as pets.  I went into this with that mindset to help my daughter learn where food comes from and wanting to raise my own food so I mean there is a bit of attachment for me but I will still do what needs to be done.  I am lucky with the fact that my dad put my light on a timer so they get about 8 extra hours a day.  And while in winter I still wont get as many eggs as I do in spring and summer when the days are longer its still better than 1 a day for me.

The breeder quality I purchased were being bred for show. They are pretty birds who go broody often, but are extremely poor layers. I'm sure there must be breeders that breed for production, but most seem to be after type and looks. My hatchery stock lays longer into their lives. If you just want good production and want to cull afterwards I would personally just keep either leghorns or any of the various sex links. The leghorns will produce longer into their lives and the sex links will go like crazy for about two years, than are best culled at the end of the second season.