The Sussex thread!

[ES4me]

I am getting 3 SS in a few weeks-I actually told the guy who has them that I might take more than the 3 I asked for. (Yes, that's me-filling my coop to the brim-lol)
He said they set 50 eggs and only 10 hatched. Is that normal for SS? This guy hatches EE and BO all the time so he definitely know what he's doing...

 

[3riverschick]

I am getting 3 SS in a few weeks-I actually told the guy who has them that I might take more than the 3 I asked for. (Yes, that's me-filling my coop to the brim-lol)
He said they set 50 eggs and only 10 hatched. Is that normal for SS? This guy hatches EE and BO all the time so he definitely know what he's doing...

No it's not normal. He either has a humidity problem in his incubator which is causing the chicks to die in the shell or he has inbred birds which has lessened vitality in the eggs. Good news is you can fix both problems.
1. Don't take a rooster from him. Then go buy a top notch rooster from the Overton strain. The rooster must be almost perfectly colored. This is very important. The reason I stress the Overton strain is the body and coloring are very high quality. You will need these establishing traits if you end up finding out your hens are inbred. This means their traits are deeply set, good and bad.
The coloring comes from the male and the breed type from the female. So... if here are color problems with your hens, he can help correct them. If there are body type problems with your hens, ... ( follow me here)... the hen gives 2 doses of body type to the chicks, the cock gives only one dose of body type traits to the chicks. So you need a cock with deep quality excellence in body traits . A cock with Rolls Royce heritage of specially bred excellence. The Overton birds are legendary for that.
Breed your females you bought to the Overton rooster. Now chickens can stand a lot of inbreeding because of their wide genetic base and the high number of sex-linked genes in the species..
So here's what you do. This is time tested and an excellent way to make a quality chicken.
1. 1st year: Breed the Overton rooster to your girls. (hold back the very best boy to use in step 5.)
2. 2nd year, breed the best daughters back to their father. ( chicks will be 50/50 percent Overton and your hen strain.
3. 3rd year, breed the granddaughters back to the Overton rooster. Chicks will be 75 percent Overton and 25% hen strain.
4. 4th year: Breed the great granddaughters back to the Overton rooster. Chicks are now mostly Overton. ( circa 85.5 Overton and 12.5 hen strain) If you have been wisely selecting for production virtues ( egg laying and meaty birds) along the way, you will have an acceptable number of lovely show birds who also lay lots of eggs and have meaty carcasses.
5. 5th year: Breed the best females from step 4 to the cock you held back in step one. chicks will be circa ( 67.75 Overton and 31.25 hen strain).
6. and on. By now you will have established your own strain and know how your birds inherit, how breeding systems work, and how to choose quality to make your own decisions on where to go next.
Best Success,
Karen

 

[ES4me]

THANK YOU, 3riverschick!

 

[3riverschick]

THANK YOU, 3riverschick!

More than welcome. the secret with Sussex is to know the production virtues are so closely aligned with the breed type that literally if it doesn't look like a Sussex it isn't a Sussex. Truly. A while back we had an excellent discussion thread on BYC called Chicken State University.( CSU) We had excellent teachers who took one breed at a time and answered questions and taught about that breed.
Here is the three weeks we spent on the Sussex fowl. 5/30/13 to 6/21/13 starting on post #1032 of 2184
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/732985/csu-chicken-state-university-large-fowl-sop/1030
Yes, historically they are called Sussex fowl , not Sussex chickens. Guess that comes from their English roots, smile. Now about this thread below, "Dragonlady" breeds renowned Buff Orpingtons now and has over 50 years raising fancy chickens. She was so kind to help me with answers for the annotated Sussex s Standard on pages of CSU: Sussex discussion on CSU. Type defines production virtues: post #1093 of 2184 thru post #1097 of 2184 Just a wonderful exposition of the APA Standard
Once you read that, things become a bit clearer.
Now here is a wonderful 9 page timeless exposition on the Sussex ( doesn't matter it says Light Sussex, the info is good for all varieties). I love this little book and went back to it often when I had questions. The author was a renowned poultry man in England. One of 3 brothers famous in English poultry circles. He was also a Sussex judge and later went on to edit a copy of the British Poultry Standards book and become President of the British Poultry Club. Here is William White Broomhead on the Light Sussex.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924003137332;view=1up;seq=1
Best,
Karen

 

[3riverschick]

annotated Sussex s Standard on pages of CSU: Sussex discussion on CSU.
Type defines production virtues: post #1093 of 2184 thru post #1097 of 2184 Just a wonderful exposition of the APA Standard

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/732985/csu-chicken-state-university-large-fowl-sop/1090

bibliography of online lit on Dorkings and Sussex ( Dorkings were the main breed behind the Sussex).
post #1261 of 2184

Things to take into consideration when choosing quality birds By nanakat, a very knowledgeable poultry person:
post #1275 of 2184 7/1/13
Laws Governing the Breeding of Standard Fowls
Wetherell Henry Card - 1912 (creator of the White Laced Red Cornish. )
These are the laws he used to develop the White Laced Red Cornish .
Judge Card was Dan Honour's uncle's uncle.
.http://tinyurl.com/kunqycw
This is a wonderful little book written when the author had over 40 years breeding fancy poultry.
It is about laws, not theories or opinions. the author was renowned for making complex breeding concepts simple.
This book is like that too. The first chapter is absolutely fascinating. The chapters on breeding different colors are
so educational. Yes, it does contain info to help with a tri-colored breed like the Speckled Sussex. You will recognize
the breeding plan. It is a time honored plan which works in different species.
Best,
Karen

 

[ES4me]

Quote: Very helpful! I find that phrase that type defines production very interesting. You mentioned the Overton strain-where might I find that line in the future?

 

[3riverschick]

Very helpful! I find that phrase that type defines production very interesting. You mentioned the Overton strain-where might I find that line in the future?

Hi,
Gary lives in West Alexandria, OH. You can find his contact info in the online American Poultry Association Judge's Directory. Gary is known as "Mr. Sussex" in the breed, smile. he is a very helpful person and can direct you to someone who has his strain and can provide you with the cock you need according to your hen's needs. One thing, when he speaks, listen. Don't try to tell him what you know. He already knows all that. These very elite breeders appreciate a breed newcomer who can listen without interrupting. Take lots of notes. The Speckled Sussex is the toughest color to learn to breed in the breed because it is a tri-color breed. This is why one should always start with stock from a high quality strain which has been line-bred for many years and wins consistently in quality competition over multiple years. It is very important to because it takes that kind of dedication to arrange the color genes in proper fashion so the color comes out correctly over multiple generations. The good news is that a cock ( cock = color) who comes from such a strain can uplift the color in your hens like we saw in the previous breeding plan. Know your proper chick color. I don't know why these lighter colored SS chicks are appearing in different strains than Overton. They are feathering out ok as adults but the chick down historically should be darker., as in the Overton birds. Hang on a sec. ...there is a good article about selecting chicks by down color, let me look it up... ( can't find it, nuts.
Well this is not the article I was looking for above but is a a great one nevertheless.
The Proper Color of Speckled Sussex by Falkenstein. The author was responsible for popularizing the dark mahogany bay colored ground color on Speckled Sussex. Before this the birds had a ginger brown color as the ground color. (Ground color is the basic color of the bird before the extra color are added like the black and the white of the speckles). This is a speech he gave to the American Sussex Club on a visit to America. he explains how to breed the mahogany bay ground color.
https://books.google.cat/books?id=j...of speckled sussex" subject:"poultry"&f=false

This is what the ginger ground color looked like before Falkenstein:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Speckled-Su...hash=item542f1f967d:m:m7cRHLVB9X8hMHqLgOIcwFA

This is the dark mahogany bay ground color after Falkenstein:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/45-speckled...710735?hash=item5d586100cf:g:cnkAAOxy039TOTsJ

So what does a truly great Speckled Sussex female look like? Here ya go, A spectacular win of Champion of Show
( That's like Best In Show in dogs). A truly great speckled Sussex pullet from Brian English's English River Poultry
in Canada. ( pullet is a female less than a year old. Over a year is called a hen) This is what you select for ( scroll down to Sussex):
http://ontariopoultrybreeders.webs.com/championsatopb.htm

Best Regards,
Karen

 

[Peekin In]

This is one of our speckled sussex chicks. I got them from McMurray hatchery and they were sold as all poults but I have a sneaking suspicion that the first one is a roo. Second photo is one of the other ladies.

 

[MesMama]

@Peekin In. I think your suspicions are correct, the first one looks like a roo. I have 4 SS also from McMurray and none of them have a comb or wattles like that

 

[Dello]

[/IMG]
This is the smallest bantam I have ever owned or even seen. I got her at a local feed store with mixed breeds. Can anyone verify if she is a Speckked Sussex Bantam? I would like to acquire more as she is my only one like her.