The truth about most dogs lives.

[isadream]

Quote:
The thing that is amazing to me about the low cost spay and neuter is my vet does it cheaper!!! I just had one neutered and I was going to try our brand new low cost spay and neuter clinic because I was thinking it was going to be cheaper but nope my vet was!!

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
No, that is not analogous.

What WOULD be a correct analogy would be, if one in four children in the US are being 'euthanized' or left to fend for their 6-yr-old selves on the street, should people be birthing kids of their own or should they be adopting the abovementioned kids.

The difficulty in drawing analogies with human children is that generally even if living conditions are for whatever reason very dire and insufficient, it is generally agreed that there are family bonds and parental rights and value in a child staying with its parents (assuming the parents want it). This is not the case with dogs.

Personally I have no problem with dogs being bred for NEEDED PRACTICAL PURPOSES such as service dogs and such. But doing it just for the ego of competing in dog shows or owning a certain-shaped certain-colored dog, I do have a problem with that occurring while perfectly-good dogs are being killed for lack of homes. (If a day comes when NO plausibly-adoptible dog fails to find a home, then fine, breed away. We are not even CLOSE to that now however)

It just depends I guess on whether one's major concern is for the DOGS or for one's own whims and entertainments.

Myself, I believe that there is not too darn much you can possibly want to do with a dog that is worth KILLING another dog for -- which is what you're doing if you buy from a breeder. It is really that simple. Aside from the aforementioned few *necessary pragmatic* roles that can only be served by very particular types of dogs, there are just X number of homes available to support dogs. And every one of those homes that is filled by a dog bought from a breeder is one home LESS available for already-existing homeless dogs.

It is like musical chairs. You can't pop in and take away four chairs for some other use and pretend it has no effect. And in the pet version of musical chairs, it's not just a game -- the number of available chairs is a matter of life and death.

JMHO,

Pat

 

[EweSheep]

Quote:
No I do not think it was written by a 13 year old but an over reactive shelter manager. If you want people to adopt your animals, lower the restrictions for those who WANTS to adopt. If you put so many restrictions, it is YOUR doing as the manager to put those dogs and cats to their deaths!!!!!!!

Yes, do spay and neuter your pets! Leave the breedings to serious breeders, not backyard breeders or puppy mills or anyone thinks a female dog needs to experience motherhood...that is a LOAD of crap!

Off my soapbox!

 

[isadream]

Quote:
No, that is not analogous.

What WOULD be a correct analogy would be, if one in four children in the US are being 'euthanized' or left to fend for their 6-yr-old selves on the street, should people be birthing kids of their own or should they be adopting the abovementioned kids.

The difficulty in drawing analogies with human children is that generally even if living conditions are for whatever reason very dire and insufficient, it is generally agreed that there are family bonds and parental rights and value in a child staying with its parents (assuming the parents want it). This is not the case with dogs.

Personally I have no problem with dogs being bred for NEEDED PRACTICAL PURPOSES such as service dogs and such. But doing it just for the ego of competing in dog shows or owning a certain-shaped certain-colored dog, I do have a problem with that occurring while perfectly-good dogs are being killed for lack of homes. (If a day comes when NO plausibly-adoptible dog fails to find a home, then fine, breed away. We are not even CLOSE to that now however)

It just depends I guess on whether one's major concern is for the DOGS or for one's own whims and entertainments.

Myself, I believe that there is not too darn much you can possibly want to do with a dog that is worth KILLING another dog for -- which is what you're doing if you buy from a breeder. It is really that simple. Aside from the aforementioned few *necessary pragmatic* roles that can only be served by very particular types of dogs, there are just X number of homes available to support dogs. And every one of those homes that is filled by a dog bought from a breeder is one home LESS available for already-existing homeless dogs.

It is like musical chairs. You can't pop in and take away four chairs for some other use and pretend it has no effect. And in the pet version of musical chairs, it's not just a game -- the number of available chairs is a matter of life and death.

JMHO,

Pat

You say you dont understand owning a certain shaped certain colored dogs---Let me ask you--what breed of chickens do you own? Do you have rescued fighting game chickens or a nice type of laying chicken?

I do love my dogs dearly and I love my horses dearly and I had a pet rooster that we called my dog chicken because he acted like a dog. However I do not understand why there is such a push in the US against the purebred dogs.

It is no different then owning pure bred chickens, pure bred horses, or goats. Ppl get dwarf goats because they want a small goat. Ppl buy silkies because they want the soft feathers and good broodies. Ppl buy little poodles for their allergies and as a companion. I bought a pug puppy for my daughter because I wanted a small good tempered dog. I did not go to the shelter because the majority of what is in the shelter are large chow, pit and lab crosses. I did not want my child around these breeds nor did I want to bring the dog home only to return it a month later because lo and behold after the dog adjusted it became aggressive to my child. This has happened to several of my friends who have adopted shelter dogs.

For any to say that I caused the death of a dog because of I purchased a pug puppy is absurd. That is like saying that everyone here who purchased sexed pullets as chicks caused the death of all the male chicks because you only bought hens and not all the roosters.

 

[Oven Ready]

Not wanting to stick my head above the parapet so to speak but....

Is there any real difference between dogs and say, chickens or pigs?
After all, lots of people on this forum have chickens as pets, some have pigs, goats etc and yet many still manage to eat them.
If dogs were seen in the same way, a pet and a food source there would be considerably less problems with unwanted dogs.

There are plenty of countries in the world that see dogs as both pets and a food source, why should dogs be elevated to such a grand position that their lives actually become worth less than a chickens, at least the chicken gets eaten when it's killed.
Dog meat is about the same nutritionally as pork.

Please, no Soylent Green references.

etc - bad spelling

 

[isadream]

Quote:
I personally dont see the difference. I could no more kill my pet chicken then I could my pet dog--now you let a stray or a neighbors dog come in and start wiping out my chickens thats gonna be one unlucky dog!!!

I know when I worked with the Mexicans at my last job they totally did NOT understand my love for my animals--they eat dogs and cats in Mexico and they view them as no more then a goat or a pig.

Viewing animals as animals does tend to eliminate a lot of the problems. Countries that eat horse meat do not have near the problem with ppl abandoning and abusing horses that we are having now.

 

[redhen]

Problem is.. We're a spoiled society..
We dont eat cats and dogs because we've NEVER REALLY been hungry enough to have to.
And i hope to never be that hungry...

But, truth be told.. IF it was my dog or my saving my childs life... the dog would go...

Chickens would go first though.... then the ducks.... then the bunnies.. then the geese...then my piggies( Just dont tell them..

.).. then my dogs as a LAST resort.
OOh heck... i forgot about the cats... I've got 7 of them..

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
I can't own rescued game chickens, for PRACTICAL reasons. First, there are no (that I know of) rescued game chickens *available* around here -- there is some illegal cockfighting but when the birds are found and confiscated (which is rare) they are not available for adoption, and in any case, for practical reasons I *require* chickens that can be kept in large groups and are safe with each other and my small children.

If I could have obtained my original chickens as someone's healthy surplus, I would have. It just wasn't an option. Also, my chickens are more livestock than pets -- most of them will get eaten when they are done the productive part of their life. I would rather eat home-raised chicken than factory-farmed chicken, so I think it is BETTER for me to be breeding/raising my own than buying from a supermarket.

It is no different then owning pure bred chickens, pure bred horses, or goats. Ppl get dwarf goats because they want a small goat. Ppl buy silkies because they want the soft feathers and good broodies. Ppl buy little poodles for their allergies and as a companion. I bought a pug puppy for my daughter because I wanted a small good tempered dog. I did not go to the shelter because the majority of what is in the shelter are large chow, pit and lab crosses.

Yes, not ALL shelter dogs are appropriate for you, but there are PLENTY of small breed good tempered dogs still at shelters looking for homes.

If there were *zero* out there -- if and when the number of people looking to adopt homeless dogs of <whatever practical type> far exceeds the supply of homeless <that type dogs> in shelters/rescues -- then, as I say, fine, breed away.

We are certainly not near that situation now, nor do I expect it to happen within my or my kids' lifetimes.

Note that there is a difference IMHO between saying "we want a small fluffy friendly dog" (in general) versus "we want this one particular breed and it has to be *just exactly* that and no different". That is just indulging whims, and not in my opinion nearly as important as giving a generally-suitable dog a home even if it is not the exact shape or color or ear-set you originally had in mind.

For any to say that I caused the death of a dog because of I purchased a pug puppy is absurd. That is like saying that everyone here who purchased sexed pullets as chicks caused the death of all the male chicks because you only bought hens and not all the roosters.

Huh?? It is physically impossible to hatch female chicks without also hatching a similar number of male chicks.

It is NOT impossible to acquire a pug, or many-characteristics-similar-to-a-pug, dog from a shelter or rescue.

(Plus it is not like there is only one particular breed a person can like, or that it has to be a Breed rather than a mix... so it is not like you're restricted to HAVE to have a pug specifically)

By buying a "bred" dog rather than an existing one going to be euthanized, one already-existing dog WAS euthanized -- one that you could have taken home and loved.

Sorry to put it so bluntly, but, you know, that's just the way it IS.

(edited to add: this is not directed at the poster to whom I'm replying specifically, of course -- I mean it in *general*. I am just so sick of hearing this kind of active denial of reality. It would be refreshing to hear someone say "you know what, it just IS more important for me to indulge my tastes and whims than to help give a dog a home, I mean you know they're just dogs they're not PEOPLE, they're euthanized reasonably humanely in most cases, so why should I care, I don't have to watch. I want a <particular purebred look> and this is America and I don't see why I shouldn't be able to buy what I want". I would at least respect the HONESTY of that type of reply)

Pat​

 

[arabianequine]

Quote:
I think I have made it pretty clear too me there is a difference. I am glad and thankful I live in this country and would not want it any other way. If your happy being able to shoot your dogs and eating them then stay there don't try and get me to agree with your way of living there.

 

[Wolfwoman]

There's one other situation that you haven't covered and that's people that breed dogs and keep them.

I have nine dogs because I had a couple litters of puppies. Both litters were "HOLY CRAP" litters, meaning Dakota was far quicker and smarter than we were in the 30 seconds it took him to nail Lokie

You can't say that by my having puppies that I killed a shelter dog, because even if we HADN'T had pups, I wouldn't have adopted one... because we already HAD dogs.

I had Ladie and Dakota who then had Lokie. Dakota and Lokie then had pups... if Dakota and Lokie had NOT had pups, we would still just have Lokie (Dakota has since passed). As we DID have pups, we are responsible for them and they will live their lives with us. So, everything that I've done has NOTHING to do with shelter dogs, or contributing to the problem of them.

We also have two other dogs NOT born to us, that WOULD have been taken to the pound if we didn't take them. So, in that sense, I did help.

So you cannot say that people that breed pups in all instances kill shelter dogs.