The Welsummer Thread!!!!

[Happy Chooks]

Quote:
Kelly~

Thanks, I'm glad I didn't give them up either...I was literally ready to sell them. Stopped myself once, the deal was almost made and I changed my mind. Guy was so miffed at me...but hey..he hadn't given me any money, so I didn't loose any sleep over changing my mind.

Originally, they were Barber lines....I got them (bought the whole flock..bought 3 flocks matter of fact of different breeds) from an elderly man in Central Oregon who had been breeding chickens for years, he got them directly from Lowell...years ago (I saw that paperwork). At first I believed that he had only purchased more birds from Lowell to add to his stock, but after breeding the birds that I had from him, I came to the conclusion that they may have been of lesser quality. I only have one hen left from that lineage and she is a daughter of the original flock and the survivor of the pitbull attack. Odin came from a breeder in California and I can't for the life of me find that paperwork (I can tell you the mans name was Matt, that's all I can remember.), let alone find any of the correspondence on my computer as it has crashed twice since then. He and his brother were the only chicks to hatch from those eggs..... of course....both roosters.
So that is what I can tell you about them.
I guess you could say they are my line at this point...........faults and all!!!

I can't wait til I can call my flock, my line.

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
I don't have any birds from Len and combs can be worked with IMO, but Len has some stock from me and I believe he is crossing the pullets from my birds to his unrelated cockerels. Len has a vision of what he wants his Welsummers to be and he is working on them just as we all are and I think he makes good breeding decisions. He has a good eye and yep he has some beautiful birds.

I have that standard almost completely engrained in my mind and I reference it often, especially if quoting something from it. I weed and cull my birds heavily....no matter the breed. Geebs from here on BYC will tell you I am a very picky breeder, but even being that picky we can't control everything, we can only control how hard we cull.
The genetics that we can't see and will never have control over and how they work to certain degrees are the hardest thing to work with, i.e..., genes act differently with every bird created even though they may come from the same set of parent birds......lots of things effect how a bird expresses phenotypically, alot of that has to do with things that I can't even begin to go into and lets just say it's not just how the genes park in the big genetic parking lot, but also certain signals those genes send to other genes and certain protein levels can effect genes differently in each bird...it doesn't stop there either. But all in all, we work with what we have and cull hard, you are very right Robin.

 

[EweSheep]

Well Pinky, by Jove, you got it!

Not all breeders think alike or want things of the same thing, same trait, same genetic make up of their birds. In our minds and eyes, we would make what we know from the standard. Sometimes if that is all you got to work with, by all means, work with it and cull HARD. Nothing like making your own lines and call it as your own and if they don't know about your lines, at least we can simply the "old time breeder's names" in our background of our birds. It works everytime! I know folks like to cheat and call it Mr so and so and you never can get a hold of Mr so and so. Paperwork, or some NPIP papers can help alot and as well as emails from the breeders works wonders! I love reading thru the breeder's emails that I had to refer it back from time to time. I am sure many of us have kept letters and emails from old breeders or well known breeders and it is well thumbed version of it LOL! I am sure alot of them have plenty to say about our birds.

However what we perceive in the standard may not be the same for the judges at the shows. Sometimes it irks me big time when they only can select first placings when it is the only one there. UGH! I wish judges will be more honest and say I've seen better Welsummers than this one, so I'll place him second or third place. I guess it's the rules when one show their birds, its the only one there, it gets complicated and they have to place a bird first even they have seen better Welsummers.

I would love to see the results on Pinkchick/Len crosses......it's going to be good, wouldn't it??????

 

[EweSheep]

As I was reading thru this thread...this one is by Chickielady. I love this quote!

Arrogant ?
Not that I can see.
Once you learn the difference and pour your heart out into breeding birds to a standard you will know the difference.
Arrogance it is not.
Knowledge, and love of the breed.
But for a newbie just starting out, hatchery birds may be the best thing as stated.
Then if you feel the desire to develope a breed you come to love, you can proseed with the knowledge.
Otherwise, some folks are happy with their hatchery birds, or mutt birds.
My FiL had a big pheasant farm, and worked it for years to develope his breeders.
He absolutely loved them.
He is too old to do much now, but he has always kept a handful of chickens, and they are all hatchery or mutts.
And he is happy with that.
It is up to the person as to how much interest you want to put into a breed, or not.
But arrogance has never come to my mind.
There are alot of folks on this thread who have been in poultry breeding all their lives, and they do know it all.
And those of us that do not know, listen to them.
These 'teachers' are not being arrogant, just teaching.
You can listen, and gain knowledge, or you can not.
But knowledgible old breeders are not arrogant that I have ever seen.

 

[mxschwartz]

Does anyone have Wellies from Estes Hatchery or Welp Hatchery?

I need to place an order......and would love to know what to expect egg-wise.

 

[EweSheep]

Order from Nate for the chicks. I do not know of anyone else off hand that would ship Welsummer chicks.

Welp Hatchery, no.

Estes Hatchery, its a hit or miss with their Welsummers but at least I know where their stock came from. Opa has some pictures of the Estes' Welsummer eggs. Nice and terra cotta in color.

 

[EweSheep]

Another food for thought about breeders that Syble wrote in the hatchery vs breeders flock thread:

Some important questions to ask a breeder to see what they work towards:

Do you show?
-if so, how do they do?
-if not ask why? some good breeders do not show because of fear of contracting disease or there isnt a local show. Ewesheep comment: It would be best if the show is APA sanctioned to get a much better idea of the Welsummer than a local show because usually the judges are not well versed in the standard and the show sponsors are going cheap in finding judges locally.
What are your goals for your flock
-ideally the answer is to improve something. Be it a general improvement to bring them closer to the SOP, or a specific trait, or hardiness, whatever. I twitch when i hear, oh i just let them run i like to see chicks round all the time!

Ask how long they have worked with the breed
- although some people will start selling as soon as they get them, beware of people who keep a breed for a year, breed like mad and sell out shortly after starting. How do you find this out? ask what other breeds they've worked with and what got them into this breed. Often times you can tell a lot about a breeder by what else they keep. Some breeders are 1 breed people, others like the one breed but in all the colors. Others have focused on one breed for a long time and although they still breed that they have decided to add another challenge. I like all those. There are breeders who will keep anything that crosses their fancy. so they(not all but most) wont be able to keep focused on the breeds enough to improve them properly as they have 20 different projects going at a time. I tend to avoid that.

Ask where they got their start in the breed.
-Ideally you want to hear from a exhibition breeder, or the like. But there are many people that keep SOP based flocks without showing them.

When its all said and done, you have to do your homework on a breed and ask a breeder a battery of questions before you buy. If you get the brush off, or short answers consider that a flag. I have NEVER met a serious breeder of anything who, when given the chance, wouldn't talk your ear off! We've already established breeders don't really make money so its for love of the breed that they do it, so they're gonna want to make you just as passionate!

Pay attention to hatching eggs. They are the hardest way to get quality stock (though one of my favorite and most rewarding). There are people out there that will use average stock and take photos off google for adds and make their stock out better then it is. There are others, that have hatchery stock or average backyard stock that will also post adds, they think they are good quality so they will post that they are, but they may not know better. The truth is alot of actual breeders wont sell hatching eggs, or even chicks for that matter. Ask alot of questions! that is your best tool, and dont put all your eggs in one basket so to speak. If your going to acquire a breed through hatching eggs, realize first that you can loose half the eggs to shipping first of all. Also diversify. Try and get eggs from 2 or 3 different breeders. then as they grow watch them carefully and keep track of who came from where, then select the best to keep. I'm aiming to have 3-4 dozen for each breed/variety that i plan to add this spring. I will only keep 1-2 roos and 4-6 hens out of them. I will keep less if they don't measure up. Breeding from good stock is challenging enough, i don't feel the need to start with flaws!

I am a big fan of pictures! they are worth a 1000 words! A great example is partridge color pattern. The person selling them had great photos of the birds from afar. they looked good. but at the time i was good with type but needed to improve the pencil/lacing on my hens. He said oh yeah that's nice and clean. I bugged for photos before i would commit to buy. finally he gave in and they were supper mossy! though i might not have known that was bad if i wasn't well versed in that color.


Now that is food for thought and if breeders just avoid you or don't want to help you, then keep on looking. After all, why keep the good secrets to help out newbies? After all, one might put your flock in the high priority list if he/she done well with your birds! Best of all ASK ALOT OF QUESTIONS!

 

[pinkchick]

Robin~

Great posts and information! Thank you for taking the time to share them.

WOODANIMAL!!!!!! If you are out there lurking.....you need to get in touch with me!

Everytime I do a search for you it tells me that my search results in no hits.

PM me!

 

[EweSheep]

I know we do have plenty of Welsummer lurkers in here!

 

[pinkchick]

les, eggs are on their way! sorry can^t pm from cell phone