The Welsummer Thread!!!!

[rainierlass]

Looking to purchase a couple Wellie pullets here in Western WA - - would like to add 2 or 3 more to my flock.........anyone here south of Seattle that would like to part with a couple???

 

[EweSheep]

We do have a couple of Welsummer breeders but I think they are more east side of the state.

 

[SilverWings]

Thank you for the responses that I have received so far concerning finding a Welsummer supplier for chicks.

Opa: I live in Maryland
Missydcpc: Thank you for Will's information and link. I actually contacted him about a month ago and he is indeed sold out for the season. I am on a waiting list if he has "extras" that haven't sold.

Still looking for Welsummer Chicks if anyone knows of a chicken fancier that will ship .... that would be helpful as well.

Would love to see some photos of eggs from people that have Welsummers. I love to see the different mottling in the eggs and the rich color.

 

[mrheinz77]

Quote: CHeck with FlashPointFarm. I believe she ships.

 

[Tailfeathers]

Proudly to announce that I got a hold of Channing Grisham!

He got his Welsummers from Frank Clark, a well known international judge, a member of the UK Poultry Club. Mr Clark is well known for his DARK egg layers and raised only large fowl Welsummers. Prince Charles has some of Mr Clark's Welsummer stock.

Here's the article on Mr Clark, in 2005:


President for the 175th Bakewell Show is Frank Clark, a respected international poultry judge who has been Chairman of the Show's Pigeon and Poultry Committee since 1984.
Derbyshire born and bred, Frank has lived at Heage Firs Farm, a 40-acre smallholding near Ripley for the past 52 years.
National Chairman of the Welsummer Club, Frank's reputation as an international poultry judge has taken him as far afield as South Africa.
"It seems strange that when the first Bakewell Show was organised back in April 1819 its purpose was to support farmers through a depression. They had been hit by the Napoleonic War and a number of diseases affecting their stock which thankfully have largely been eliminated in the 21st century.
"Today farmers are going through a similar phase, although obviously for different reasons, and they still need our support."



So you will know if someone says "I have the same lines as Prince Charles!" that means it is the Frank Clark lines.

If Mr Clark is still alive, I can write to him and find out for sure where he got his stock from!

My research shovel is still digging...........I'm leaving a huge dirt mound behind........

Thanks Robin for all the effort you put into geting us this info. It is interesting and it's somewhat exciting to hear more about some of the history of the great Welsummer breed.

That being said, I hate to burst anyone's bubble but two quick thoughts. First, the chances of anyone having the same "lines" as Mr. Clark are about as high as an asteroid hitting the earth tomorrow. Second, so what if Prince Charles has Welsummers? Does he know anything at all about them? Is he breeding them? Is he showing them?

It might be very nice to think "I've got something some (fill in the blank celebrity) has but what does it really mean? If I had the $$, I could probably buy the Mona Lisa but that doesn't mean I'd appreciate art or even Da Vinci.

When the rubber meets the road, the only thing that really matters is what YOU are doing with YOUR birds and it's a whole lot more important as to what happened with YOUR Welsummers over the last 3-5 years than what somebody else did a decade or more ago.

God Bless,

 

[Happy Chooks]

Quote: I believe McSpin ships chicks as well.

 

[faykokoWV]

Quote:
Royce, While I agree that I didn't get into Welsummers because of who had them, I think facts like those Robin is looking for help generate new interest in the breed. A person may develop an interest in Welsummers for a variety of reasons, who else owns them may just be one of those. I personally don't want to discount any factors that may bring new owners and breeders to the table.

I may have misinterpreted what you were trying to say, but I don't think we can forget the history of Welsummers as we look to the future. They are considered to be a heritage breed? How can you forget the heritage then?

In someways, it made me think of the issue with white Welsummers.... While breeders can breed certain traits, don't we have an overall standard to maintain? If there is a set standard, then 10 years from now, someone should be able to look at a flock from today and compare it with their 2022 flock and they should look the same. If not, then the standard is changing. So, I guess I'm saying that by knowing what the birds were like 10 years ago, would allow us to see where the breed has improved, how were those gains made, what traits are we missing that might have been there 10 years ago.

Would lines from Mr Clark be any more rare than the closed Barber lines that still exist?

 

[naturespace]

some photos of my 10 week old wellies from 'ruth'
I love how friendly they are. just sweethearts.
Roo



Girls

 

[faykokoWV]

nice bright yellow legs!

 

[EweSheep]

Thanks Robin for all the effort you put into geting us this info. It is interesting and it's somewhat exciting to hear more about some of the history of the great Welsummer breed.

That being said, I hate to burst anyone's bubble but two quick thoughts. First, the chances of anyone having the same "lines" as Mr. Clark are about as high as an asteroid hitting the earth tomorrow. Second, so what if Prince Charles has Welsummers? Does he know anything at all about them? Is he breeding them? Is he showing them?

It might be very nice to think "I've got something some (fill in the blank celebrity) has but what does it really mean? If I had the $$, I could probably buy the Mona Lisa but that doesn't mean I'd appreciate art or even Da Vinci.

When the rubber meets the road, the only thing that really matters is what YOU are doing with YOUR birds and it's a whole lot more important as to what happened with YOUR Welsummers over the last 3-5 years than what somebody else did a decade or more ago.

God Bless,

It is an interesting history just for history buffs for like us would like to know how our old breeders brought forth their birds into the US. There isn't much being written and once those old breeders die off, we would wonder how they exist. For example, Lowell Barber was just as important as the next breeder who had made an impact on the Welsummers. It is like a who's who. I love history and love to hear from the old breeders themselves. Believe me it was rough trying to get a hold of Mr Hall, and Mr Grisham and get a feedback from them.

Mr Clark was well known (if he is now deceased but have not got a response from a few UK breeders yet) and if Mr Clark has internet, he alone can vouch the importance of his birds. A few UK breeders did commented that his egg layers were indeed DARKER than the usual Welsummers they have shown. His Welsummers has been shown successfully, probably NOT under his name (as likewise of our US judges which they don't enter their birds, most likely due to ethics on the shows they are judging or under some one else's handling his birds).

As for Prince Charles, I contacted his estate twice and both time, his secretary kept forwarding the messages to his flock keeper who is responsible in maintaining the breeds of his Welsummers and Marans and mixed flocks. They are housed separately since he IS breeding them, selling eating or hatching eggs from his gift shop. His eggs are not as dark as ours or light either, just a medium terra cotta color with speckles. He also sells Marans eggs as well or you can get an assortment. To see his birds, it is done by appointment only. Yes he is very active in the Welsummer Club UK and whenever possible, he would exhibit his Welsummers and Marans in the shows and he didn't do too shabby either. The judges are not looking for celebrity status (as we all know too well with in US when someone famous, they would get the wins every time even with a bad looking horse LOL) and they place the birds accordingly to type, structure, plumage and they do have egg shows which I think it is a neat idea to have it in the US. Mind you, Prince Charles does not win all the time and he is a graceful loser as well, congratulating the winners. As for his stock if they mantained Clark lines 100 percent, I honestly don't have the answer from his flock manager. It is one of the hundred of questions popping in my head for Prince Charles. Now to meet him in person, that would be awesome!

Yes it is important not to lose focus on what we have bred our Welsummers for and keep on to that goal and maintaining the type, production and disposition we all loved. I am sure alot of us would love to have the "rubber stamp" consisency in our Welsummers when we breed them and we would not be doing a whole lot of culling than our ancestors did. But we are a LONG ways from it but that is ONE of our goals. I hope we don't get Welsummers to lose type like we went for the Arabians 20 to 40 years ago and now they are looking like Saddlebreds, we bred the type out of them and it would be very very difficult to bring back the old classic Arabian into modern day because all of the "fads". If we can make our Welsummers looking like our Welsummers, without the Leghorn or Cochin looks, maintain the partridge color without the "wild colors" that has been problematic (white or grey feathers, feather stubs, fuzz tails or bunny tails, oversized combs and wattles, white earlobes, yellow or green eyes, nasty dispositions, poor layers, poor vigour, no resistance to diseases and the likes, etc). That is our objective and we have to keep on maintaining it. So lets make our Welsummers honest and not be the "fad" type that would not look like a Welsummer, like a leaner meaner egg laying machine with no type at all or worse, crossed with a dark egg laying breeds like some of the older breeders attempted to do and failed miserably because of all the throwbacks popping up more often. I find that with my Fugate girls, as pretty they are but their plumage is darker than the Nate Vanwey girls I have. So I had to cull all but one and this one isn't too bad but still, she will just be an egg layer flock for me for my egg eating customers demands. Or I will sell her later on which it is highly possible. I am very pleased with Nate's birds (even the ones from Faye's) I see consisency in the flock and it is so difficult to tell them apart, plumage wise and type varies a tiny different but neverthanless, they are all beautiful.

Right now I am letting them grow up and by then, I shall be able to determine who will go to the layer flock and who will be in the breeders flock. I didn't have to cull anyone out of the Welsummer flock at all from Faye's stock. With my Spitzhaubens this year, I culled hard and one breeder said "You are too ruthless in culling and a hard a** in doing so". That is a compliement and rightfully so because I am dedicated in improving the Spitzhaubens even they were from a hatchery but still much work is needed to get all the better Spitzhaubens in the gene pool. I am sure I would never get to the goal I wanted but I can leave this earth knowing someone else will carry on the lines and the same goals.

Will we see "differences" in Welsummers according to the lines? Probably.