The Wyandotte Thread

[seedcorn]

What wins at shows (not just in poultry but every animal) is what judges/breeders want which sometimes gets away from original standard of perfection. In other words, show standards change over time and whims of breeders/judges.

An example is hamp hogs. They have upright ears but in shows what started winning were crosses that had duroc blood in them giving them longer bodies, got rid of muscle tightness and also got rid of their upright ears.. They called it the western strain of hampshires............. Now crossing in other breeds to improve lines is common (I have no problem if they are then line bred to get back to standard).

Breed whatever you want as it is a hobby and very few make a living breeding to the standard of perfection. I've never concerned myself in what wins at shows but what I want which includes standard of perfection.

 

[turbo]

I would never base my breeding program on what one judge thought was good or bad, however if that judge has been breeding wyandottes for years and years, I would pay attention to what he has to say....unlike someone who has only been to three shows and never won a BV or BB in SLW and hasnt raised a 1/3 of the SLW wyandottes that I have, advice from that person is much more dangerous than from a poultry judge who has at least some experience in judging wyandottes...

We were talking earlier about the tails in Wyandottes....tails are only one part of what makes a wyandotte a wyandotte, especially in the birds with color and lacing, some people are more concerned with the width of the head (me) than a perfect tail...but let me explain something that alot of breeders of SLW dont know or wont tell you...if you cull for good width on the heads, the tail will take care of itself.....meaning good width all the way through to the end of the tail, the pinched feather thingy that was discussed earlier? Pull the dang two feathers that looked pinched and they are gone....geez. I think I would be much more concerned with tail rise and short backs....anyway back to the tails, obviously a good tail is important to you....but a bird that has great type with a little narrow crow head drives me crazy. Correct color on the hackles and primaries is a big deal to me...I could go on and on.

If Bill Guardhouse , Lora Kershaw ( neither is a poultry judge), or Rick Hare (who is a judge) wants to make a point to me about breeding SLW I am going to listen, they dont have to go buy birds from another breeder every year, they raise many SLW each season. So I guess the short version of all this is...I agree with you unless that judge is a breeder of wyandottes, even if I dont agree with them I am going to listen to what they have to say.

I think it is good idea to go to shows and enter your birds to compare them to what other breeders are showing and raising....I have yet to go to a show and not learn something new, there are fads that come and go...such as the bunny tails in Large Fowl White Wyandottes....Wyandottes that are just too dang big...way bigger than the standard, I could go on and on....but I just pick and choose what I like and breed for the wyandotte that pleases me...after all I am paying the feed bill and if they win at the shows...well that is nice too.

As you can tell I have head strong opinions on what makes a good wyandotte, but I hope we can disagree with out getting angry about it.


Jerry

 

[Duramaxgirl]

Wow thanks for the great write ups you guys... I think I've read some of your posts twice just to make sure I'm understanding everything. I have the APA SOP, but this is better! I have 12 BLR right now... and I hope to have some good birds someday. I've learned a lot from this thread!

 

[ultasol]

Please don't mind the snipes. I am greatly enjoying the discussion of wyandotte type. The tail feathers is one thing both Tony Albritton and Daniel Jerome pointed out to me when I attended the Spring 2009 Stevenson show to pick the brains of Silkie and Wyandotte exhibitors. Another thing that both Mr. Albritton and Mr Jerome mentioned, although I believe it is a larger problem in bantams than in large fowl, is keeping the fluff on the bottom line of the bird from covering,.. hrm... I can't think of the correct term, but the fluffy lower leg of the bird... the shank? But not the unfeathered lower portion.

__edited to remove an extra "s", darn typo!__

 

[ultasol]

Quote:
Quick question. You talked about the curled in tail feathers on a pullet, is that what is occurring with the white's tail? I can see that he has a nice tail angle, nice comb, head looks good (to my novice eyes based on a single picture)... but the tail looks like the 'teepee door is closed"??

Or do cockerels get some leeway because they have longer tail feathers compared to a pullet? Could you post some good pictures from a couple different angles of a good cock tail?

 

[ultasol]

Also, is the curling inward of the tail (ie closed teepee) what is referred to in bantam wyandottes as a "bunny tail" or is that when the tail is very wide and very fluffy reminiscent of a cochin tail?

(question for both Sly and the Foleys)

 

[slybird353]

You said:
We were talking earlier about the tails in Wyandottes....tails are only one part of what makes a wyandotte a wyandotte, especially in the birds with color and lacing, some people are more concerned with the width of the head (me) than a perfect tail...but let me explain something that alot of breeders of SLW dont know or wont tell you...if you cull for good width on the heads, the tail will take care of itself.....
My comments:
Ummm…. They are at separate ends of the bird. One has little to do with the other. I have some wide birds with small heads and vice versa. The two are separate.

You said:
meaning good width all the way through to the end of the tail, the pinched feather thingy that was discussed earlier? Pull the dang two feathers that looked pinched and they are gone....geez.

My comments:
If you pull the “pinched feather thingy” than will you have not have missing coverts? That would be highly noticeable at show. And is bad advice. The APA says the tail should be “broad and overlapping” and coverts should be “broad and abundant” A closed tail will most like cause a judge to move very quickly to the next bird.

You said:
I think I would be much more concerned with tail rise and short backs....anyway back to the tails, obviously a good tail is important to you....but a bird that has great type with a little narrow crow head drives me crazy. Correct color on the hackles and primaries is a big deal to me...I could go on and on.If Bill Guardhouse , Lora Kershaw ( neither is a poultry judge), or Rick Hare (who is a judge) wants to make a point to me about breeding SLW I am going to listen, they dont have to go buy birds from another breeder every year, they raise many SLW each season. So I guess the short version of all this is...I agree with you unless that judge is a breeder of wyandottes, even if I dont agree with them I am going to listen to what they have to say.
My comments:
I know you have “to go buy birds from other another breeder every year” Jerry, but that’s okay many of us do. I too have done it for my line of silvers. If you have birds you will always need to bring something in. My advice would be to listen to them but always revert back to the APA standard. The advice I was offering was only my humble opinions. Once again get an APA standard and study it.

You said:
As you can tell I have head strong opinions on what makes a good wyandotte, but I hope we can disagree with out getting angry about it.
My comments:
Actually I appreciate a good discussion on something that we are both passionate about. You need not worry about me getting angry about it as I actually got a chuckle out of your post. Cheers Jerry.

 

[ultasol]

Ok, can we all agree that both the Foleys and the Pauls have very nice birds, both raise to APA standards, both show, and both are competing in the same business (raising, hatching, and selling wyandottes bred to standard)?

Rather than this 'my bird is better than yours' banter can we understand that every bird posted on this thread has strong and weak points, as there is no perfect bird? Also, as far as I know, neither one of you has won the national with your silver laced, which seems to be a particular point of contention.

Personally I would love to have the input of both of you on your interpretation of the standard, and honest critiques of birds without personal attacks. You both have much to add to the discussion and the breed, but put down the cudgels first, please.

 

[slybird353]

Quote:
Both bunny tail and Cochin tails are just two examples of words we use to describe an undesirable trait in Wyandottes. Both mean the same. The tail on that white girl is fully opened. Look at the main coverts. Notice that they do not touch each other except for the top couple. Everything else is just “fluff” That is a good tail. After a bath that bird should look good. A cock’s tail is somewhat different. More rise, and long sickles that curve over the tail. But still it the must be wide and open. Just imagine a clam. If you’re Wyandotte has a clam tail that also is incorrect. The APA standard has great drawings and examples. If I may…… look in the silver laced in the background of this picture. Notice the top couple of inches on that silver pullet in the background. That needs to have more separation and is what I call a clam tail. Different from a ball shaped bunny tail. Please keep in mind that most of my birds are not good enough to stay on my farm and that’s is why we send several hundreds to the local auction every year. We are not claiming to be perfect. Hope this helps.

BTW. I love the color on that splash BLR. She is beautiful

 

[Duramaxgirl]

Quote:
Could someone enlighten me as to what 'snipes' means? I'm still new here and I've seen the term often. Thanks... I'm also enjoying the wyandotte type descussion. Keep it going! Love the photos to.