There are shows, and then there are shows...

[kathyinmo]

Quote:
Rather insulting talk about judges, Professional. (Though not surprisingly.)

BTW .... You never have responded to the question asked of you .... PROFESSIONAL WHAT? (Even though I think I know the answer!)

 

[Katy]

smithzoo

I am sure that there are chicken breeders out there that may have birds bred to the Standard Of Perfection, but may not be actively showing for a variety of reasons.

This is my goal. I don't show nor do I want to, but I am trying to raise birds that meet the SOP. I doubt I live long enough to have a SOP for my Marans, but the others I'll keep breeding and culling and hopefully do justice for the breeds I've chosen to raise.​

 

[Katy]

Quote:
Rather insulting talk about judges, Professional. (Though not surprisingly.)

BTW .... You never have responded to the question asked of you .... PROFESSIONAL WHAT? (Even though I think I know the answer!)

I think we all have a pretty good idea Kathy!!

 

[Professional]

Quote:
Professional,

You make it sound like rare breeds should not be bothered with. Anyway, I am still waiting for a ribbon to be pinned on my 'obscure' breeds. Maybe when the judges are more familiar with them that will happen.

You and a few others seem to have a knack for making unfounded assumptions, and twisting my words to mean something that they're not. Maybe that's because you find my stance on the matter distasteful yet true, and you don't care to face the reality, or maybe it's just that you can't quite wrap your heads around it fully. I'm not sure which. Either way, it is far from true that I think that rare breeds should not be bothered with. On the contrary, many of the breeds I enjoy are the rarer ones. As one last example, at a recent show which hosted the Polish Breeders national meet, a woman entered her nice little pet chicken, Buttercup, a Buff Laced Polish. She was awarded Reserve Variety Buff Laced. Not because she has an outstanding exhibition animal, but merely because there was very little competition. Three Buff laced, I believe, but I could be wrong on the exact number, but it was very low. So she received a second out of three, by default, as there were really no exhibition quailty specimens of her variety there. Now this being a national meet for the Polish Breeders Club, they of course sponsored awards, and this woman's hatchery pet chicken received the trophy for RCH Buff Laced. She is understandably proud of her little pet, and is now online advertising it as THE 2010 National Reserve Champion Buff Laced Polish. That bird would not stand a chance in a show with any serious competition, I've seen it. Now maybe to her children, friends and neighbors, she has something really impressive there, but to any serious exhibitor, she's just a fake. She brought home a trophy due to circumstances, not because her bird is a quality representative of the breed. The poor soul just doesn't understand what happened, but do you think she's also telling folks that her National Reserve Champion was given that designation simply because it was in the right place at the right time, and won 2nd out of three at one show? By comparison, I won BB and RB in my breed at the same show, with quality competition from two other serious breeders with a dozen birds. It wasn't a national meet, so no trophies were awarded. Which do you think is the more meaningful win and the better quality bird?

 

[Professional]

Quote:
This is my goal. I don't show nor do I want to, but I am trying to raise birds that meet the SOP. I doubt I live long enough to have a SOP for my Marans, but the others I'll keep breeding and culling and hopefully do justice for the breeds I've chosen to raise.

Actually, you probably will have an approved Standard of Perfection for the Marans within a few years. Despite the disgraceful condition which many of the breed were presented in at their recent failed attempt at a qualifying meet at Illini, the APA has generously allowed them to continue the process and try again, to hopefully get it right next time. This is the subject for an entirely different post, but it does tie in with the thinking about how some people who exhibit poultry just don't understand what it's really all about.

 

[Brody's Broodello]

Well we show alot. At least 11 or 12 APA/ABA shows a year,all over the EasternCentral US. And at everyshow where there was a bird that was Hatchery Quality, it was not placed it simply gets the words Production written on it. ie dark brown smaller birds entered as RIR. At least that is what I have seen. Also at a show last fall, there was only 1 bird entered in a class, the judge gave it a second. My hubby was writing for the judge that day, and his comment was "there is noway I can give this bird a 1st even if it is the only one here" "It just doesn't have enough breed type"
Quote:
In MOST cases, only one bird entered = first place, unless it's horrible, like NYREDS wrote. I've seen it happen too, when a poor bird get's a second, but it's few and far between. In most cases the judge just doesn't have the time to waste even thinking about what to do with some of these obscur entries, or these hatchery birds which in no way measure up to show quality stock, so yes, often the Pink Breasted Naked Neck Langshan just gets a first, and by days end its owner is online bragging about how Henrietta is now a show quality chicken. MANY birds which are truly not deserving of an award do get placed first without competition. The judge knows that they have no hope going any further in the class, so it's just easier that way, rather than have to explain to poor broken hearted Ms Novice why he gave Fluffy a second out of one.

 

[cgmccary]

I know what you mean Pathfinders. There are some people who sell eggs on ebay or who advertise themselves by saying something like, "Many of our (breed name) are shown by Poultry Exhibitors and 4H'ers who have won Best of Breed, Grand Champion and Reserve Grand Champion (Name of Class) Class in shows throughout the (region of country) since 20**."

The fact is, this ebay Seller has never shown a bird themselves and when pressed for a "who, what, when" response, Seller comes up with someone they claim to have sold a bird to last summer, but when researched, turns out that someone-Buyer's kid showed a bird of same breed at a show & won Reserve in the class in the Junior /Youth show. No Reserve Grand Champion, No Grand Champion, no Open Show Champion & ebay Seller could only name the one show.

This misrepresentation does not mean the ebay Seller does not have good birds or stock NOR does ebay Seller need to show to have good birds. There are many nice birds out there that are not shown. That is not really my point. My point is: Do you want to purchase anything from someone who is knowingly lying about their product? If you are buying from someone because of the representation being made (i.e. their birds are shown & win shows all over the region including Grand Champion & Reserve Grand Champion of the show), then if important to you, don't be shy to request more detail--- ask for name of show, when, who & ask them if they have personally ever shown and won those things. IMHO, it is dishonest to claim wins of people they sold birds to sometime in the past to try and pitch their sale. Also, isn't it in bad taste to "show" a bird bred & raised by someone else? (my point being that perhaps the Buyer's kid showing it was showing a bird (s)he bred from the stock (s)he obtained from the Ebay Seller and NOT ebay Seller's bird specifically).

What if ebay Seller had said, "you can show him if you want to; I don't care?" Would that make a difference? In my opinion, it would make a difference if Seller gave permission BUT then wrong for ebay Seller to then exaggerate the Buyer's kid's win as, "Grand Champion," & not even "Grand Champion of Youth/Jr Division" but "Grand Champion" vs. the reality/truth: "Reserve Champion of the Class of the Jr. Show."

I know there are loftier things to worry about or get concerned about, like Haiti, but in my book, dishonesty by bragging to make a buck to sell some hatching eggs, that's pretty low. If it matters to you.

NYREDS:

Katy wrote:

Nyreds....I've got a question for you. As a judge are you obligated to award all the placings if you feel none of them measure up?

No. I have, on rare occassions, started a clas at 2nd & gone down from there because there wasn't a bird I thought was deserving of a 1st placing.​

Good for you NYREDS! I don't know who you are, but I'd suspect most APA/ABA Judges have integrity like you do & would judge in the same fashion. If I had that #2 bird, I would want to know that I needed to do some work. I would not want to go home falsely thinking my bird was good enough for #1.

I also agree with what has generally been said here that a great bird may be the only one of its kind at the show & vice versa, that some people win because there is virtually no competition, but if the Judges are like NYREDS, then the win will be something less than a #1. good discussion.​

 

[Msbear]

Quote:
Rather insulting talk about judges, Professional. (Though not surprisingly.)

BTW .... You never have responded to the question asked of you .... PROFESSIONAL WHAT? (Even though I think I know the answer!)

I think you guys are being a little harsh. When he's saying the "judge doesn't have time to waste"... I don't think that's insulting. Judges typically have 800-1,000-2,000 birds to look at, give points and rank. Sometimes, if it's close, birds are taken out and examined and taken out again. This is where the time should be spent... not on someone's backyard bird that shouldn't be there to begin with. On top of that, everyone's itching for coop out after an all day affair. Im sure the judges are exhausted. He's not knocking rare breeds either... just saying that at shows there usually isn't a good representation of that breed because it is rare and this causes substandard birds to place where they, otherwise, should not.

Maybe he was running his trap somewhere else

but I didn't see it here.

 

[Professional]

Amazing what people can read into something, if they want to, isn't it?

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

OK, so how did this turn into a bash of people's words?

This was an interesting topic that I was watching closely. Why bash someone who is just giving an opinion?




Edit:
And what was that about pink-bodied, naked-neck Langshans? Seriously..out of all the breeds...a Langshan?