Third eyelid wont retract

[Nickiduck]

Greetings from sweden!
Me and my wife has got a pair of geese of an old swedish rural breed called "ölandsgås".

Beginning a few weeks ago the female has had some problems with her third eyelids which wont retract properly.

She had tendencies like this in her left eye when we got her (around may this year) but it seemed to sort itself out after a while. We then thought it was because of her growing. But then a few weeks ago it started coming back, and this time on both eyes. And now it has started impairing her vision.

She doesnt seem to be in pain, and shes eating and drinking as per usual. But its clear its not normal nor very comfortable.

Weve had two different vets look at her and neither found the source. Neither of them found any damage to the cornea or anything like that. And neither any signs of problems with her sinuses(?) or other respiratory issues.

Now in the winter they are getting a mix of whole seeds of different cereals (wheat, barley, oats, rye). And added carrots and pumpkins and the like more or less daily.

Right now our main vet is on holiday leave so were just trying to do all we can in the meantime..

Any ideas? Anyone seen it before? Any tips on what to search for?

See attaches photos.

 

[Goosebaby]

There could still be some sort of infection or irritant causing this, sometimes the exact cause is unknown but that looks like some sort of inflammation.
If it isn’t bacterial a virus could be to blame, according to a few sites online neoplasia can also cause this.

There isn’t a lot of veterinary information available online about problems with the nictitating membrane so there’s a likelihood your vet just doesn’t know what to look for which isn’t their fault, vets and owners alike are at the mercy of available or known information and the growing amount of ai websites are making finding legitimate useful information difficult.

Here’s one site that lists a number of cases involving various problems with the nictitating membrane.

https://escholarship.org/content/qt...7e591932210fc3f7e8833aebdfabf9e1.pdf?t=piq9pd

If she were my goose I would put her on a round of Tylosin, doxycycline, or both to see if the issue responds and the inflammation subsides because I would guess it was mycoplasma which I suspect is in my flock, mycoplasma is hard to test for and can sometimes affect individual birds differently.

If it’s nothing to do with any kind of infection maybe some sort of localized nervous system disorder? Honestly I’m grasping at straws because this is a very unusual case you have.

 

[Nickiduck]

Thank you so much for all the info!

I might mention that our main vet is somewhat a bird-specialist whos been doin research on birds in dubai and whatnot. Which we are of course extremely thankful to have as a vet. But weve also noticed those problems you mention with the scarcity of information. At least here in Sweden animals are very much in three categories; pets, farm animals and wild. With three VERY different views on their worth and all.

Everyone spends thousands on their cats but if a chicken has a limp its off with the head. This mentality does of course impact research funding and everything else and this has been very obvious when weve discussed things with our vet. For instance we asked him if it was possible to do bloodtests of our ducks to see if they had any vitamin deficiencies or the like. He laughed and said that he would love to do that and that he might know of a lab that could, and that we were probably the only ones he knew who would want something like that

Anyway...

EDIT:
Managed to post before i was finished and noticed a few hours later...

Weve tried metacam with injections 2 times per day but it had no effect. During this treatment we also gave her an antibiotic (i think?) salve applied to the eyes (fucithalmic).

Anyway your answer confirms most of what our vet has said and with some added information, so nice to know we are on the somewhat right track. Our vet also said that its an odd case...

Thanks again and ill make sure to update here, so that the information will be available for others in the future , whatever the outcome.

 

[Goosebaby]

Thank you so much for all the info!

I might mention that our main vet is somewhat a bird-specialist whos been doin research on birds in dubai and whatnot. Which we are of course extremely thankful to have as a vet. But weve also noticed those problems you mention with the scarcity of information. At least here in Sweden animals are very much in three categories; pets, farm animals and wild. With three VERY different views on their worth and all.

Everyone spends thousands on their cats but if a chicken has a limp its off with the head. This mentality does of course impact research funding and everything else and this has been very obvious when weve discussed things with our vet. For instance we asked him if it was possible to do bloodtests of our ducks to see if they had any vitamin deficiencies or the like. He laughed and said that he would love to do that and that he might know of a lab that could, and that we were probably the only ones he knew who would want something like that

Anyway...

EDIT:
Managed to post before i was finished and noticed a few hours later...

Weve tried metacam with injections 2 times per day but it had no effect. During this treatment we also gave her an antibiotic (i think?) salve applied to the eyes (fucithalmic).

Anyway your answer confirms most of what our vet has said and with some added information, so nice to know we are on the somewhat right track. Our vet also said that its an odd case...

Thanks again and ill make sure to update here, so that the information will be available for others in the future , whatever the outcome.

It’s the same over here in the U.S, there are three main tiers of veterinary worth:
1 Horses and companion animals “cats & dogs” who are allocated the most funding for medical research.
2 Exotics. Parrots, zoo animals. They’re more valuable to keep alive in comparison to a farm animal.
3 Livestock. Livestock are disposable, but even here cattle are of higher value than poultry as cattle are harder to replace.

When I’ve found gaps in information for my geese I look for the closest equivalent which is chickens, there are a lot of chicken owners and they can be a wealth of knowledge when veterinary information is lacking.
When that isn’t helpful I look to Parrots, a lot of avian medical information comes from veterinarians who work with parrots.

Finally I’ve actually researched human medicine when I couldn’t find anything, which has been occasionally helpful.


Metcam/ meloxicam is a decent pain killer and it will help relive inflammation. The only issue with fucithalmic is the issue with any antibiotic when the exact cause is unknown, if there is a bacterial element it has to be sensitive to the antibiotic for the medication to work.

Has your vet performed a culture?

 

[Pumperkinz]

Hi there!

I have a local vet who suggested using over the counter visine esk drops.

It helps sometimes get the irritant out or help with at least lessening the inflammation. In the US the variant the vet told me to try was "genteal" which simply is an extra lubricant.

If you have a local vet that is good they would more then likely get you some terramycin for eyes, if available. In the US you can't get it over the counter anymore, but depending on what country you are might be able to.

I had one sebastopol get eye issues similarly, and cleaned her eyes out with some saline and applied the terramycin and it cleared up in 3/4 days.

Hope she feels better soon!

 

[Goosebaby]

Hi there!

I have a local vet who suggested using over the counter visine esk drops.

It helps sometimes get the irritant out or help with at least lessening the inflammation. In the US the variant the vet told me to try was "genteal" which simply is an extra lubricant.

If you have a local vet that is good they would more then likely get you some terramycin for eyes, if available. In the US you can't get it over the counter anymore, but depending on what country you are might be able to.

I had one sebastopol get eye issues similarly, and cleaned her eyes out with some saline and applied the terramycin and it cleared up in 3/4 days.

Hope she feels better soon!

Birdpal still has some thankfully https://birdpalproducts.com/products/terramycin-ophthalmic-ointment1?_pos=1&_sid=9ae411874&_ss=r

 

[Pumperkinz]

Birdpal still has some thankfully https://birdpalproducts.com/products/terramycin-ophthalmic-ointment1?_pos=1&_sid=9ae411874&_ss=r

Nice yeah I found some on amazon at one time but it's totally not listed correctly lol.

 

[Nickiduck]

Has your vet performed a culture?

Do you mean like a lab-test for what bacteria/fungi that can be the cause? If so, no. Im not sure he can, because of facilities and what not, but ill check it with him.

When he gets back from his holiday leave, i will show him this thread and discuss all your tips and input!

 

[Nickiduck]

Hi there!

I have a local vet who suggested using over the counter visine esk drops.

It helps sometimes get the irritant out or help with at least lessening the inflammation. In the US the variant the vet told me to try was "genteal" which simply is an extra lubricant.

If you have a local vet that is good they would more then likely get you some terramycin for eyes, if available. In the US you can't get it over the counter anymore, but depending on what country you are might be able to.

I had one sebastopol get eye issues similarly, and cleaned her eyes out with some saline and applied the terramycin and it cleared up in 3/4 days.

Hope she feels better soon!

Hi and thanks a lot for the tips!

As far as i can see visine is available in our drug stores without prescriptions. The terramycin ill add to the list to discuss with our vet because that needs a prescription here aswell.

 

[Nickiduck]

General update:
It hasnt gotten any better the last days, more or less stable, maybe sliiiiightly worse. But weve started cleaning with saline morning/afternoon and are giving her some metacam again, slightly higher dosage this time (per ordination by vet).

I also contacted the place where we bought our geese. Its a conservation-park called "Nordens ark" which has got breeding programs for both wild and domesticated endangered species/breeds.

Our contact there also checked with her colleagues who recognised the symptoms from their wild Lesser white-fronted geese (Anser erythropus).

She mentioned more or less the same things weve already discussed and also Futichalmic and Synolux. In addition she gave some thoughts on the living environment and this got us thinking extra about this.

Because of a rise in bird flu we had to shut them in early this year and in combination with very damp and duck-y weather it might have become less then ideal in the greenhouse, where they live during the winter. It hasnt been BAD in any way, just not ideal. But colder temps are coming so that should better that situation a bit.

BONUS RANT:
Not sure about the US, but in europe bird flu is spreading from the factories via the wild birds, which forces ALL bird owners into a bunch of restrictions. Our birds cant be outside when there are "high risk" (like...november-april).

And instead of looking at the major problem (LARGE SCALE ANIMAL FACTORIES) they simply, in case of an outbreak, kill ALL birds at the site, sucessfully eliminating all possibility of breeding resistance in the birds. And then the circle begins a new:

Buy new birds, bunch them up inside together, wait for problems, kill them all, repeat

This has been the go-to "solution" for several years now.

The human circle of problemsolving