This is what a balanced layer feed with no treats delivers

[Perris]

This is what the American Livestock Conservancy recommend for heritage breeds, which a lot of backyard chickens are.

"Feed requirements: Heritage breeds of chicken (especially heavy or dual purpose breeds) require a more nutritionally complete feed ration than their commercial counterparts, in order to fully achieve their potential size and productivity. Many of the common rations found in feed stores are formulated for commercial hybrid birds which are selected to grow well with less protein in their diets. Often producers can find appropriate levels of protein for Heritage chicks in game bird or turkey starter and grower diets. To best manage the nutritional requirements of Heritage chickens the following feeding schedule is recommended:
Hatch to 8 weeks of age: approximately 26-28% protein content game bird starter ration.
8 weeks of age to 12 weeks of age: approximately 22-24% protein content game bird grower ration.
12 weeks to until point of lay (24 weeks): approximately 18-20% protein content layer/broiler grower ration.
Point of lay (24 weeks) to end of laying cycle: approximately 16-18% protein content layer ration.
A little higher protein content keeps the bird healthier in times of heat/cold stress, and better maintains condition of the heavier bodied heritage laying hens. The layer ration has a higher calcium percentage than the grower ration at a max of 8% and a minimum of 5%.
Breeder ration: When collecting eggs for hatching from breeding stock attention to detail in nutrition is especially important and the addition of a nutrient/probiotic supplement can assist in increasing fertility and hatchability. Overall, feeding the breeder flock should fall into the general guidelines for the layer flock at approximately 16-18% protein content layer ration, with calcium at a max of 8% and a minimum of 5%."
https://livestockconservancy.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Heritage_Chicken_Feed_Guidelines.pdf

 

[Brooks_]

are you claiming that commercial layer feed provides hens with a balanced diet? And that the nutritional analysis proves it?
What about when the protein figures are reached by e.g. adding melamine?

The highest tested dose (500 mg/kg) was related to the highest level of contamination found in animal feed (WHO, December 1–4, 2008), theoretically falsely increasing the protein concentration by 0.2%,

because the purpose of this research was to establish whether, "Following the accidental contamination of a feed mill with melamine, and when rigorous cleaning of the system is lacking, can low residual contamination be a hazard to the consumer?" and not when it has been added fraudulently.

So you want to play both sides? A 0.2% theoretical increase is within a margin of error without fraud.

 

[Perris]

So you want to play both sides? A 0.2% theoretical increase is within a margin of error without fraud.

you appear to be skimming, at best, the links and reading I supply, so miss the points, and you don't provide anything to support your view, so I think I won't waste any more of your or my time on this.

 

[BDutch]

Rather than address these latest points individually, let me try a different tack.

There are lots of posts on BYC about sick chickens. Many of them concern metabolic disorders, non-infectious diseases that only 1 bird in the flock is suffering with while the rest seem fine on the same feed and in the same management conditions.

The usual advice is to ask what are they being fed, and recommend stopping any treats so that they have to eat commercial feed or starve. If the reply comes back that that is all they get already, the advisor switches subject from the feed to other things.

Often the advice is to supplement with additional vitamins. Why is this necessary if the feed is complete?

All the metabolic disorders (like fatty liver haemorrhagic syndrome, other liver and kidney problems, and skeletal problems especially in chicks) arise from nutritional deficiencies or other shortcomings in the diet. Why is the health of commercially fed layers good enough for the farmer to keep them till they are only 72 weeks old?

What about, instead of stopping the treats, people tried stopping the commercial feed? Some of us have done that, and noticed a significant improvement in the health of our flock.

Don't take my word for it. Try it for yourself. Give your birds real food, containing real vitamins and minerals. And let them find some of their own food in your garden. See what a difference it makes.

I subscribe this view on feed.

Its also said that chickens know whats best for them if they free range. But you need a garden where there is plenty of food in variety for them. Giving scratch once a day and no layer at all is a good and healthy possibility in such circumstances. But unfortunately not many of us live where there is food available outside 365 days a year and another thing is the risk of predation that makes it a no go to free range for lots of byc keepers.

It’s never a one fits all. Therefore I dont like some of the advices given on layer feed and supplements either.

What isn’t discussed but is an interesting topic too is organic vs. cheaper feed with GMO corn and soy.
There is proof the feed with poison residues from GMO crop is less healthy for chicks. And in general there is a lot of experience that GMO feed has a negative impact on fertility.

 

[Brooks_]

you appear to be skimming, at best, the links and reading I supply, so miss the points, and you don't provide anything to support your view, so I think I won't waste any more of your or my time on this.

Yes, I did skim and not bother with any support as your mind is clearly made up as evidenced by thread title and first post.

Conflating conditions and nutrition.

 

[Perris]

But you need a garden where there is plenty of food in variety for them. Giving scratch once a day and no layer at all is a good and healthy possibility in such circumstances

I used to think that, but don't any more, because Chirk was confined most of the year and only had the pen grass and lawn weeds to forage, so he was almost entirely dependent on supplied feed. I deal with that in wholesome homemade feed 2.

It’s never a one fits all.

Absolutely.

What isn’t discussed but is an interesting topic too is organic vs. cheaper feed with GMO corn and soy

Why don't you start a thread on it?

poison residues from GMO crop

This is actually 2 issues: herbicide/pesticide residues on food- and feed-stuffs, and GMO. Discussions are generally less focussed when GMO enters the picture, so maybe leave that aside? So another thread on residues?

 

[Debbie292d]

View attachment 3845009
https://www.bhwt.org.uk/hen-adoption/

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100094264570677 is the source of both posts.

 

[tripletfeb]

what I am against is the habit of some people on here to tell anyone with a sick bird to give them commercial feed and nothing else.
Or to recommend changing the diet of all birds when just one has an issue. I am against treating all birds in a flock as clones, I guess. It's understandable in a commercial setting, but it makes no sense with backyard chickens.

So, you are wanting people to separate out each bird and feed them all different things, assuming they have different nutrient needs? Who has the time or money to do that? Almost everybody that feeds multiple animals(even humans) feeds them the same things. Farmers with goats, sheep, cows, pigs, all feed the animals the same things. The few exceptions would be if one was pregnant, feeding a baby, or sick. When I cook dinner for my family, I cook all of us the same thing. We all might have different vitamin and mineral needs but I'm not cooking three different meals based on that. The reason most people tell others to feed only commercial food if a bird is sick is because you have to start somewhere when it comes to a sick bird. They can't tell us what's wrong so it's a process of elimination

 

[Perris]

So, you are wanting people to separate out each bird and feed them all different things, assuming they have different nutrient needs?

No, of course not. I want people to offer their birds real food, from which they can select what they want to eat at the time, not a homogenised pellet designed to deliver exactly the same nutrients in exactly the same doses in every mouthful every meal every day.

eta and even better if they can let their birds forage in the garden for a while every day to find the things they want or need there.

 

[Perris]

View attachment 3846975
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100094264570677 is the source of both posts.

what is your point? The British Hen Welfare Trust has hundreds of hubs where birds are held while waiting for collection from rescuers in their areas.