This is what a balanced layer feed with no treats delivers

[Perris]

Rather than address these latest points individually, let me try a different tack.

There are lots of posts on BYC about sick chickens. Many of them concern metabolic disorders, non-infectious diseases that only 1 bird in the flock is suffering with while the rest seem fine on the same feed and in the same management conditions.

The usual advice is to ask what are they being fed, and recommend stopping any treats so that they have to eat commercial feed or starve. If the reply comes back that that is all they get already, the advisor switches subject from the feed to other things.

Often the advice is to supplement with additional vitamins. Why is this necessary if the feed is complete?

All the metabolic disorders (like fatty liver haemorrhagic syndrome, other liver and kidney problems, and skeletal problems especially in chicks) arise from nutritional deficiencies or other shortcomings in the diet. Why is the health of commercially fed layers good enough for the farmer to keep them till they are only 72 weeks old?

What about, instead of stopping the treats, people tried stopping the commercial feed? Some of us have done that, and noticed a significant improvement in the health of our flock.

Don't take my word for it. Try it for yourself. Give your birds real food, containing real vitamins and minerals. And let them find some of their own food in your garden. See what a difference it makes.

 

[BDutch]

One simply cannot compare commercial egg hens to the backyard flock hens. The conditions tend to be vastly different.

Yes and I don’t believe that commercial layer feed is optimised for backyard chickens. The feed for organic commercial hens is differently balanced in nutrients as the layer feed for hens who don’t get out.

Fyi/inEU: The organic kept hens have much more space inside, they are never caged but so called free range, and their outside space is at least 4m2 for each chicken.

Fyi: Within EU, UK and US the percentage of caged hens is dropping https://www.poultryworld.net/poultry/layers/calls-for-eu-legislators-to-ban-cages/

Commercial egg producers aren't buying the 50# bags of feed the rest of us are.
Their feed is made in bulk just for them. The formula they feed is not the same formula we see in our commercially manufactured feeds.

Are you sure about this? I thought the commercial and the byc layer feed is the same if its from same factory /same brand. And the producers only put the byc feed in bags and not in a silo.

 

[Ridgeback825]

 

[Perris]

I just published a report and update on my homemade feed article that some readers might find interesting
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/wholesome-homemade-feed-2.79307/

 

[Brooks_]

Often the advice is to supplement with additional vitamins. Why is this necessary if the feed is complete?

Because not all bodies process things the same. Just as some people need a vitamin even though their diet is fine.

Why is the health of commercially fed layers good enough for the farmer to keep them till they are only 72 weeks old?

Because it was only designed to be "good enough" for the high production portion of their life. Possible that it's still "good enough" past that - just the farmer is not keeping it.

Are you sure about this? I thought the commercial and the byc layer feed is the same if its from same factory /same brand.

I can't say with certainty. But I can say that there are 3 (4 if you count organic) layer options available to me from the same brand.

 

[Perris]

Because not all bodies process things the same.

so why is it a good idea to offer them one and all the same thing to eat, every meal, every day?

But I can say that there are 3 (4 if you count organic) layer options available to me from the same brand

one wonders what is more or less present in the different versions, and how that doesn't upset the balance or the completeness... as Kiki's spreadsheet shows well, there are actually huge variations in the composition of feeds. The guaranteed analysis shows what should be present if tested in a lab, but doesn't say anything about the digestibility of any of them inside the gut of a chicken. The problem of waste from poultry units exists because so many of the nutrients are pooped out again.

just the farmer is not keeping it

Farmers waste nothing in my experience. This just does not explain why they are literally throwing away a hen that is 1 year and 5 months old (in the case of the hen in the photo that opened this thread, plus millions of her sisters).

Because it was only designed to be "good enough" for the high production portion of their life.

Some of those who take in rescue hens like her say she keeps laying well, for varying lengths of time. But most of them seem soon to get disorders of the reproductive tract. Do you think those disorders are caused by just living, or by the tender loving care they typically get from their rescuers, or could it be by the nutrition they got before that point, which was inadequate for body maintenance and repair?

 

[FrostRanger]

The reason battery hens are culled at a year and a half to 2 years old is they're past their peak production. Pretty much all hens will lay less after that point. Production breeds in particular tend to drop off quite a bit 'cause they're bred to lay a lot of eggs. That's not to say they can't be good layers after that, there are plenty who still lay reliably after age 2, but they are past their prime so their feed to egg conversion ratio isn't as good. Hence why many farmers will cull their hens at that age and replace them with young pullets just starting to lay. Completely unrelated to feed and is purely a biological thing
Edit:
Production breeds are also notorious for reproductive issues regardless of whether they're exbattery hens or not. That is actually mainly due to bad genetics. They're bred to lay very well, not to lay or be well for a long time

 

[Perris]

Completely unrelated to feed and is purely a biological thing

That is false. See e.g. A systematic review of potential productivity, egg quality, and animal welfare implications of extended lay cycles in commercial laying hens in Canada, Poultry Science 2024 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579124000543 :
A couple of pertinent quotes from it should suffice:
"Several feed-related interventions such as high-protein diets, probiotics supplements and vitamin A and K3 supplements identified through this review have the potential to positively influence productivity and, especially, egg quality during the late laying phase...Overall, productivity was acceptable beyond 70 wk of age with hens close to falling below 70% laying rate only at 100 wk and beyond...specific dietary and rearing practices during the pullet phase that can help realize better performance during an extended lay cycle" - specifically, "A potentially key requirement for achieving lay persistency and egg quality in longer lay cycles is nutrition and feeding practices, especially in the pullet phase. As discussed later in section 3.3.3 with respect to building up the medullary bone, energy/protein ratio between ages 11 and 16 wk for pullets, adjusting feed intake during onset of egg production, maintaining body weight, managing decreasing energy requirements after egg production is established, optimizing protein and amino acid levels in the diet, adjusting calcium requirements for different stages of the lay cycle, and feeding system/technique used are all important in achieving longer lay cycles (Bain et al., 2016; Dekalb, 2017; Molnar, 2017)."

 

[Brooks_]

so why is it a good idea to offer them one and all the same thing to eat, every meal, every day?

Because it is nutritionally sound for the vast majority.

ne wonders what is more or less present in the different versions, and how that doesn't upset the balance or the completeness... as Kiki's spreadsheet shows well, there are actually huge variations in the composition of feeds. The guaranteed analysis shows what should be present if tested in a lab, but doesn't say anything about the digestibility of any of them inside the gut of a chicken. The problem of waste from poultry units exists because so many of the nutrients are pooped out again.

That's a valid consideration that would apply to any feed formulation for any animal.

Farmers waste nothing in my experience. This just does not explain why they are literally throwing away a hen that is 1 year and 5 months old (in the case of the hen in the photo that opened this thread, plus millions of her sisters).

Because the cost of feed and "care" outweigh the income from the eggs. And it is not wasted; it is sold to make other animal feed. Maybe even for processed chicken nuggets.

Some of those who take in rescue hens like her say she keeps laying well, for varying lengths of time. But most of them seem soon to get disorders of the reproductive tract. Do you think those disorders are caused by just living, or by the tender loving care they typically get from their rescuers, or could it be by the nutrition they got before that point, which was inadequate for body maintenance and repair?

I'd say more genetics as mentioned above. They were bred to lay an unnatural amount of eggs. Would you blame the feed for the health issues a CX has at just 2-3 months?


I get that you are against commercial feed and have found an alternative that works for you, but many of us here do not have the time or resources to do so.

 

[Perris]

Would you blame the feed for the health issues a CX has at just 2-3 months?

Obviously not, meat birds are a completely different ball game. And they are now harvested at 4-6 weeks, not 8-12.