This is what a balanced layer feed with no treats delivers

[NanaK]

I really think to accurately compare you would need to have birds kept with the same conditions and the guaranteed analysis from the feed or diet they are fed.

Battery hens are prevented from scratching and pecking on the ground so they tend to peck each other.

The feeds battery hens usually contain the least amount of nutrients to keep them alive and laying for their short lives.

I prefer a higher protein feed because I do give veggies. I personally think this makes a huge difference in the health and way a bird looks.

 

[Perris]

Further, the overwhelming majority of the people who recommend a balanced commercial feed and no treats are not actually recommending that birds have zero access to any other kind of food. They are advocating not offering treats, because most people are going to be offering too many treats and offsetting the balance of the diet.

You assume a lot of both posters and readers. I'm still waiting for any evidence; so far it's just your opinion. The term treat seems to mean here whatever the user wants it to mean. And how does foraging not offset the balance then?
There is a lack of consistency in your position.

 

[21hens-incharge]

the key word is 'and'. Scratch varies even more than bagged so-called complete feeds, but whatever, it will contain a lot more than just protein. It will have fibre, assorted minerals (micronutrients, essential in very small quantities every now and then [not every mouthful of every meal]) varying with what it is, where it grew, when it was harvested and how it was stored etc., and it will have nutrients that are destroyed by the industrial processes that turn more or less the same raw ingredients into a shelf-stable bag of chicken feed.

I couldn't agree more. So why feed backyard hens what has been developed for commercial hens?

You missed my point.

The conditions they are kept in plays a tremendous roll in their stress levels which plays a tremendous roll in their behavior.
Feather picking, bullying, spontaneous molting, reduced egg production, and early death are all increased in overcrowded situations.

That rescue you linked states 30sq cm in the coop in order to adopt.
I doubt many if any backyard keeper would find that space adequate.
Further the run space they stated is also woefully inadequate if one wants healthy birds.

I have had chickens since the late 90's and never experienced birds in the condition shown.
Most often my flock has contained ~30 birds.

 

[Perris]

I really think to accurately compare you would need to have birds kept with the same conditions and the guaranteed analysis from the feed or diet they are fed.

Indeed, but it won't happen. A hen just released from a commercial egg farm is as close as we are going to get to seeing what a 100% commercial feed diet does to a bird, I think.

Battery hens

we don't have these any more. We have a slightly better version called enriched cages. The differences are described here
https://thehumaneleague.org.uk/article/whats-the-difference-between-battery-cages-and-enriched-cages
I see they have a page for the USA too, here
https://www.humanesociety.org/resources/cage-free-vs-battery-cage-eggs according to which, most layers there are in battery cages still.

 

[Perris]

You missed my point.

The conditions they are kept in plays a tremendous roll in their stress levels which plays a tremendous roll in their behavior.
Feather picking, bullying, spontaneous molting, reduced egg production, and early death are all increased in overcrowded situations.

That rescue you linked states 30sq cm in the coop in order to adopt.
I doubt many if any backyard keeper would find that space adequate.
Further the run space they stated is also woefully inadequate if one wants healthy birds.

I have had chickens since the late 90's and never experienced birds in the condition shown.
Most often my flock has contained ~30 birds.

I agree entirely with you about the appalling conditions these poor birds have been kept in and are allowed to go on to (the vast majority of them won't find even these homes and will be slaughtered). And I agree that conditions have an impact. But none of us knows that the bird in the photo was picked on, bullied, or has started moulting at 72 weeks. I can understand people pointing to these possible factors to explain the bird's condition, but it might just be wishful thinking. What we do know is that all that bird has eaten is commercial starter, grower, and then layer feed.

 

[AinaWGSD]

You assume a lot of both posters and readers. I'm still waiting for any evidence; so far it's just your opinion. The term treat seems to mean here whatever the user wants it to mean. And how does foraging not offset the balance then?
There is a lack of consistency in your position.

There is not. Personally I feed treats. But my position is that if people only offered what is available for commercial feed and did not purposefully offer treats it would not result in a bird of that condition. Nothing i have posted contradicts that. That body condition is not caused by not offering treats. It is caused by the living condition of the hens. If I fed my dogs exactly the same way as a puppy mill fed their dogs my dogs would still be in much better shape than a puppy mill dog because of their environment. If a puppy mill fed their dogs in exactly the same manner I feed mine their dogs would still be in terrible shape, because of their environment.

What exactly is your position? Because from the op it seems to be that feeding only a commercial diet with no treats results in the same body condition as a spent commercial egg hen and that diet alone is responsible for the condition of the hen in your first post.

 

[21hens-incharge]

I agree entirely with you about the appalling conditions these poor birds have been kept in and are allowed to go on to (the vast majority of them won't find even these homes and will be slaughtered). And I agree that conditions have an impact. But none of us knows that the bird in the photo was picked on, bullied, or has started moulting at 72 weeks. I can understand people pointing to these possible factors to explain the bird's condition, but it might just be wishful thinking. What we do know is that all that bird has eaten is commercial starter, grower, and then layer feed.

What we DON'T know is the nutritional analysis of what they were fed. I saw nowhere that stated they were fed only commercial layer feed on the sites linked.

 

[avjudge]

That first link says to adopt they require 30sq cm each in the coop.
That is less than 5sq inches. That would be horrible conditions to keep them in.

I wonder if they have confused “square centimeters” with “centimeters square.”

If that is true, 30 cm square (30x30) would be about one foot square or one square foot, not enough by our standards but at least large enough for a hen to fit in.

 

[Perris]

I saw nowhere that stated they were fed only commercial layer feed on the sites linked.

It's a commercial hen. What else is it going to have been fed?
We don't have a nutritional analysis, but it's a spent layer, so it will have been eating what the person making money out of her eggs thought was the best value wherever the 'farm' was. It's a bit perverse to suggest that a commercial hen might have been fed anything else.

 

[Perris]

What exactly is your position?

It was pretty much summed up in the immediately preceding post, to wit, I agree entirely with you about the appalling conditions these poor birds have been kept in and are allowed to go on to (the vast majority of them won't find even these homes and will be slaughtered). And I agree that conditions have an impact. But none of us knows that the bird in the photo was picked on, bullied, or has started moulting at 72 weeks. I can understand people pointing to these possible factors to explain the bird's condition, but it might just be wishful thinking. What we do know is that all that bird has eaten is commercial starter, grower, and then layer feed.