Thoughts on organic chicken feed. What is your opinion?

[Weeg]

I've read that soy beans are sprayed before harvest to dry out the crop and kill off leaves etc.
This is an article I found talking about it.
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/crops/field/news/croptalk/2013/ct-0913a3.htm

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

They are sprayed with Roundup right before harvest, which as well know, contains Glyphosate.

This is a complete and utter LIE. I understand you don't want to use GMO products but don't fall into the trap of using lies and falsehoods to bolster you stance.

 

[Weeg]

This is a complete and utter LIE. I understand you don't want to use GMO products but don't fall into the trap of using lies and falsehoods to bolster you stance.

Huh? I'm not lying, this is actually something I read from a source I trust. Seems from the opinions I'm getting that source may have been wrong, but I still don't like the use of chemical pesticides on an foods I, or my animals eat.
I'm certainly not lying, sounds like I find myself a source with incorrect, or outdated information.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Weeg and I are often upvoting one another's posts, but on this subject, we disagree. For the very vast majority of people, absent some extreme dietary condition (of the sort that makes me wonder why they have chickens at all), "Organic", or even Non-GMO feeds are vastly overpriced and generally deficient when compared to a similar product placement non-Organic/GMO equivalent.

Two reasons:

One, "Organic" is usually accompanied by other market-trending buzz words of dubious nutritional value, which, while no reflection on "Organic" directly, contribute to a potentially deficient or otherwise problematic feed. "Vegan", "Whole Grain" "Gluten Free" "Soy Free" are commonly cound in combination with Organic, and each introduces potential concerns.

Two, THE most important limiting amino acid in a chickens diet - particularly hatchlings - is Methionine. Need for it decreases as the chicken ages. Plant sources generally are low in methionine, pound per pound - its just not a big component of plant proteins. Yet Methionine is absolutely critical for connective tissue development, plays a big role in feathering, and is the primary indicator of a well developed intestinal tract - which benefits your birds the rest of their lives. Yet available Met sources are so rare, particularly in the smaller subset of crops grown organically, that synthetic Methionine is routinely ADDED to "Organic" feed. In limited amount, such that even ssynthetic supplimented feeds often offer Met levels just meeting the minimum for a fully grown production layer intended for a production layer's lifespan. Where similar amounts of synthetic Met are added to non-Organic feed, a truly superior mix results, particularly for growing birds, but benefiting all bird of all breeds and ages.

Third most important is Lysine. Lysine key to muscle, particularly breast muscle development, and plays an important (if secondary) role in development of the immune system. Again, synthetic Lysine is frequently added in effort to make up for deficiencies in the underlying feed. Europe, particularly, is at the cutting edge of that science. The US? not so much.

Put me in the camp with @3KillerBs on this subject, and in close company with @Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay . We sometimes disagree at the margins on feeding, but Lazy J has the benefit of experience - most of my "knowledge" comes from studies, and there are some areas of the science where reasonable, well-educated, people have have quibbles over smaller details while agreeing on the larger issues.

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Huh? I'm not lying, this is actually something I read from a source I trust. Seems from the opinions I'm getting that source may have been wrong, but I still don't like the use of chemical pesticides on an foods I, or my animals eat.
I'm certainly not lying, sounds like I find myself a source with incorrect, or outdated information.

You might find a tech sheet that outlines how it may be done but it is not a practice used in actuality. With the almost 400% increase in the price of glyphosate there will be no wasting of it this year.

This type of misinformation is what happens to us all when we spend our time inside our own echo chambers. Critical thinking is a skill not taught and lost on virtually all humans.

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Third most important is Lysine. Lysine key to muscle, particularly breast muscle development, and plays an important (if secondary) role in development of the immune system. Again, synthetic Lysine is frequently added in effort to make up for deficiencies in the underlying feed. Europe, particularly, is at the cutting edge of that science. The US? not so much.

Don't make the assumption that what appears in retail feeds is reflective of how commercial livestock and poultry are fed. I help formulate rations for large commercial farms and their diets and ingredients are much different than the formulas I use for retail bagged feed. We use a massive amount of synthetic amino acids in commercial livestock and poultry feeds but that use is not the same in retail feeds.

One thing that is changing in Animal Science is the shift from publishing research in scientific journals. Many of the larger, integrated livestock companies are doing good research but the results are used internally and not shared with the scientific community. That is a loss to the science and one we may regret.

 

[3KillerBs]

I've read that soy beans are sprayed before harvest to dry out the crop and kill off leaves etc.

That is false information.

The soybean plants dry out naturally as part of their normal maturation process -- just like what happens to your garden bush beans if you allow them to progress to the stage of harvesting dry beans rather than green beans or shelly beans.

Soybeans are harvested only after the plants have died naturally at full maturity with the beans at their maximum development.

Killing the plants early would make no sense because that would mean that the beans didn't fully mature and produced a smaller crop.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

@Weeg you should also be aware that your spec sheet is from 2013. It details the process, and makes no represtations as to how frequently it is done in reality.

While CA does grow a significant number of soybeans, Glyphosate (Roundup) use is either banned or heavily restricted in enclaves throughout the state. All State College campuses have essentially ended the use, roughly 30 significant CA cities or counties now forbid it, and the state keeps pushing for a State-wide ban. Its been on CA's rediculous Prop 65 ban for about a decade now, too. CA seems well on its way to using its Court system to bankrupt Monsanto - something to keep in mind when you source from them. The State rarely sees a success it doesn't then seek to either punish or extract special tax revenues from in an effort to plug its growing budget holes.

 

[Bonkerelli]

I feed all my chicks/chickens USDA organic. Even with that label it doesn't mean it is 100% "organic". That is an entirely different discussion. I personally eat organic and the chickens I get eggs and meat from I also want to be organic. Being less nutritious is very debatable because it gets more of the natural nutrition from the actual source but added vitamins and minerals are added to fit standards of law in animal feed production.

I use 2 different brands of organic feed. One is more processed and the other is more whole grain. It can be expensive but I am paying for a less "processed" (both production and genetically) food.

I use to work in the pet food industry and there is a reason why I try to feed my animals the best. It is abhorrent what they put into food and what it derives from.

 

[townchicks]

I always buy organic when I have the option, including my chicken feed. We need to protect this earth. Every living thing has a purpose, even if we don't know what it is. Roundup is a known carcinogen.