Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Skyeknight]

I wonder if that is an example of knowledge passed down genetically? Our babies start trying to dust bath right away, even the first ones, when we were brooding them in the house, but a battery chicken comes from a long line of chickens that have never been outside and never had the chance to chicken. Either way, it is really sad.

I would expect this to be because they never had been able to do it before in their life, so why would they start doing it now. Maybe more repressed instinct cause they could never do it. But if it was genetically than they would probably also show it way less than other chickens. At least I see in my CX that the Hubbard's immediately performed normally chickens behaviour, while the Ross had to learn it for a few weeks. But now I don't see the difference in behaviour between them and normal chickens.

 

[BDutch]

the term 'scratch' seems to be as broad and long as the word 'treat' - it seems to mean a huge range of different things and leads to lots of confusion.

Right

Why do you think 10% is appropriate? why not, say, 5%, or 15%, or any other percent? Does it matter what the mixed grains are? Does it matter if the 10% treats are whole grains of wheat or ultra-processed Twinkies/ jam-filled deep-fried donuts, for example?

It might be possible the kind of treats and even the quality of the feed and treats are of influence.
Maybe the taste or sweetness is an underestimated indicator for quality.

Seriously. I think a lot of discussions about feed are often not about what is best for your and my backyard chickens but about what is best for farmers and other egg producers.

it was just regular chickens in a run like most people keep chickens -- it was not meat birds, just regular ol' hens who were 3-4 years old and had kinda slowed down laying and they killed them to eat. Etc…

Thanks for the explanation thistlewick.

Catching up. 4 pages behind atm.

 

[Perris]

what is best for farmers and other egg producers

for sure that is what motivates and funds the industry research.

 

[Perris]

I never thought I would have to train chickens to range.

I found this to be a problem with some if not most of the Ex Battery hens.

I wonder if that is an example of knowledge passed down genetically?

if it was genetically than they would probably also show it way less than other chickens. At least I see in my CX that the Hubbard's immediately performed normally chickens behaviour, while the Ross had to learn it for a few weeks. But now I don't see the difference in behaviour between them and normal chickens.

The Danish PhD gave the birds - who came in as 17 week old POLs - 3 weeks to acclimatize to the experimental set up (pop door always open and range fully accessible), and concluded that this might not have been long enough, citing work by Forbes, J.M. and Covasa, M. 1995. Application of diet selection by poultry with particular reference to whole cereals. World’s Poultry Science Journal 51, 149-165.

I concur with that. All the birds in the experiment were naïve and had no-one older to teach them how to forage, so had to learn by trial and error, which takes longer and is less proficient than learning by watching elders, as chicks raised by a broody can and do.

I have read somewhere but don't recall now - Nicol perhaps - that old chickens are rather set in their ways (sounds familiar from the human world ) and don't learn as fast or as completely as youngsters. As rescue hens are only a couple of years old, I imagine they can catch up reasonably well, if so inclined.

I don't think the instinct for foraging and dust bathing has been bred out of chickens. Both are essential for health and will have been selected for since chickens existed.

 

[Perris]

The abstract to that last reference, incidentally, speaks to the '10% rule/myth', ending with "Such questions as to whether to feed a high-protein food or a conventional food in a choice with whole grain, and whether these should be fed separately or mixed together, have yet to be fully answered. Until then, feeding a conventional food diluted progressively with cereal grains to a maximum of about 35% is beneficial for both poultry producers and individual birds."

 

[Shadrach]

20/07.
Three hours mainly dry with temperatures a comfortable 20C until evening.

 

[thistlewick]

literally anyone who starts a backyard flock from scratch can tell you that chickens absolutely just dust bathe from instinct - they have no one to learn it from and still manage to figure it out quite quickly, at just a week old or so they start doing it in the brooder bedding.

(I am always so sad at seeing people use puppy pads or paper towels for chicks >< bad for their feet development as well)

 

[rural mouse]

Paying taxes

 

[RoyalChick]

The Danish PhD gave the birds - who came in as 17 week old POLs - 3 weeks to acclimatize to the experimental set up (pop door always open and range fully accessible), and concluded that this might not have been long enough, citing work by Forbes, J.M. and Covasa, M. 1995. Application of diet selection by poultry with particular reference to whole cereals. World’s Poultry Science Journal 51, 149-165.

I concur with that. All the birds in the experiment were naïve and had no-one older to teach them how to forage, so had to learn by trial and error, which takes longer and is less proficient than learning by watching elders, as chicks raised by a broody can and do.

I have read somewhere but don't recall now - Nicol perhaps - that old chickens are rather set in their ways (sounds familiar from the human world ) and don't learn as fast or as completely as youngsters. As rescue hens are only a couple of years old, I imagine they can catch up reasonably well, if so inclined.

I don't think the instinct for foraging and dust bathing has been bred out of chickens. Both are essential for health and will have been selected for since chickens existed.

A personal anecdote on one of my chickens and her foraging instincts and choosing her own food.
Many who have seen pictures of my flock are used to seeing them 'out and about' in an unkempt jungle of weeds. Plenty of variety of plants, insects, snakes and frogs to choose from, and though not technically free ranging (I have an electric fence) seems more than enough for the small flock I have.
Recently I have been invaded by rats and I am switching to a rat proof feeder for their commercial feed pellets so that there is less food left on the ground inside the Chicken Palace to attract the rats. This requires training the chickens to use the feeder. Basically I have had to confine them in their Chicken Palace without any other source of food and show them how to operate the feeder.
My Chicken Palace is much larger than the typical coop and includes both covered and uncovered areas, it is big enough that I don't worry about keeping them confined if I am away for a few days, but never without food.
All my chickens have learned the feeder. Some are more confident than others but they aren't going to starve.
Except one.
She has shown no interest in the new feeder whatsoever. Three days she went without commercial feed before I caved and let them all out to forage.
During the three days she managed to fill herself up with spiders and flies from inside the coop (thank you Sylvie) and then went to a place where the heavy rains had leaked in a bit and dug a very deep hole until she hit worm territory. She managed to fill her crop by nightfall on each of the three days.
She was not broody raised (came from a specialty breeder nearby), though she did have a short period of time as an adolescent where she was 'schooled' by Eli who was broody raised and who sadly died of Marek's, and a longer period of time being ruled by Bernadette who was raised by me but who had enormous feet and was a prodigious digger and forager.
Seems she learned those lessons well, and my guess is she managed a pretty good and high protein diet all on her own!
Now I have to start over training her because there will be less available to forage in the depth of winter.

Here is Sylvie pointedly ignoring the new feeder (metal box in foreground to right of the picture).

 

[MrsNorthie]

The abstract to that last reference, incidentally, speaks to the '10% rule/myth', ending with "Such questions as to whether to feed a high-protein food or a conventional food in a choice with whole grain, and whether these should be fed separately or mixed together, have yet to be fully answered. Until then, feeding a conventional food diluted progressively with cereal grains to a maximum of about 35% is beneficial for both poultry producers and individual birds."

We give options, We give the whole grains, both dry and lightly fermented, and I keep a feeder with the high protein chick starter available for the tweens. Which, right now, given the fact that this is our hottest summer since having chickens, is proving to be beneficial as they are losing over 4 hours of their normal foraging time.

Normally, they forage from sunrise until about 1 PM, have a mid-afternoon siesta, and then back out foraging by 4 or 5 PM. It has been so hot, that they are taking siesta from 10:00 AM until 5 or 6 PM, but we are letting them out earlier and they are going to roost much later, so it still averages out to being only 4-ish hours lost. I have noticed that they are all consuming a little more of the higher protein chick starter during this period.

We are all done with summer.