I have come onto this thread a few times to see what you are all thinking about this. I have seen a few times people who are afraid of free healthcare system.
I live in the UK and was born here. I get really stuffy sometimes about our own system, and I have real issues with the politics here, but I thought I would just give you an honest overview of how things are here.
Several times I have seen the idea in your posts about Socialism and Communism, and even a quote from Kruschev, apologies for the spelling.
First let me tell you take anything he said with a pinch of salt. He was a famous wit, and had a very bad temper, he was famous for taking off his shoe and banging the table in the UN.
But his greatest joy was to wind up anyone from the west. OK, it was a wind up. Also he was so far removed from Socialism it can not be true. He was Communist in the most real sense of the word. Remember this : Communism: All pigs are equal but some pigs are more equal than others. It comes from Animal Farm and just about sums it up.
Now can you tell me of anyone who saw any communist leader arrive on a bicylce??? The states we have seen as Communist in this world have been a joke. Chairman Mao, his people were starving and he was floating in a huge swimming pool with a string of beautiful girls paid to satisfy his needs. The Russians, all drove around in huge cars looking very well heeled while their people were digging in the dirt.
None of these leader lived in the slums with their people.
Ok Now Socialism.... someone here mentioned Jesus. Well Jesus was the first socialist if you like. Never mind about the fancy definitions, socialism is an Ideal, and like all ideals it is the stuff of dreams. Jesus did not see borders or social divisions between people, we were all just children of God. he never refused help. he did not gather money and wealth. he said "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the world".
Another dream.
here in the UK there are people with very strong socialist ideas. There are also a few communists I am sure, but most people just want to get on and live their lives and are very happy that we pay a small amount out of our wages each week and if we are ill we can just turn up at the doctors or the hospital and we will get treatment.
IT IS NOT PERFECT.
It could never be perfect. Health is not something you can quantify and slap on a balance sheet.
There is a constant drive to make things better, and to be honest there is a real drive here these days to make things far more American.
The problem is that decisions are not made by doctors, they are made by politicians. The other problem is that there is no bottomless pit of money. So it will never be perfect.
As for the politics here believe me it is not scoialist, not now or has it ever been. We are supposed to be socialist (kind of) we are also supposed to be democratic.... lol.
But all countries now have a new God... it is money. the politicians will get elected that can put the most money back into your pocket, and when elections come around unless you are really sick at the time nobody cares about health they arell lookingto get their taxes reduced.
I had a student from Kurdistan once who asked me at election time if we asked our politicians how much they spend on the arms trade? How many of them are involved in it? I could only answer no we don't ask those questions, because at the time they are not important to us.
We are not facing the bullets. but that is changing now.
It is the same with health. yes we have a universal healthcare system, but now we are getting health tourism. We also have a hypocratic oath that doctors swear when they qualifiy, nowthey are being forced to go against this. Because of Health tourism they are being told t refuse treatment to people in need until they can establish where to send the bill.
I used to work with asylum seekers and refugees. they are entitled to healthcare here, as long as they are in the system, but I took a young woman who did not speak English to the hospital as she had arrived heavily pregnant and in agony, we had not had timeto process her papers. Recepetion at the hospital wouldnot let her through untilthey had taken her home address to send her the Bill. This girl had survived her entire family being killed and her home being burned to the ground, she was going to need a Caesarian Operation to save her baby due to FGM, and they made her wait until I had paid the taxi to find out where to send her Invoice.
I have been trucking myself around our health system for 2 years now. I have been in a lot of pain, seen 4 specialists, and still have only very floppy diagnosis. I am not happy...lol. But I am not dying. I am just very uncomfortable. I will get there in the end.
Our Doctors are amazing, not always, but mostly. It is the system and the management of it that is creaking. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians.
But the essence of the Health service here means that people will get treatment if a child falls froma tree and their mum has no money they will be treated, if they have a life threatening illness they will get treated. the doctors and nurses, especially the nurses here are brilliant and they care somuch just as many of you do who are working in health. The truth is that nothingwill ever be perfect, but the people who do their jobs do their very best.
Yes there are people here who will take advantage, who will rip off the system, and that is the area that neds to be tightened up, at the moment we are all assumed to be guilty until proven innocent here.
But again the people making the decisions are not listening tothe people who know. they are so arrogant they believe they have all the answers, and it casues problems. They refused to listen to teachers and now our education system is failing, they refused to listen to health professionals and they are still doing battle with that system.
If they do it right in the beginning then it is a great relief. Ohhh and by the way if you have money here you can still buck the system and get all your little heart desires.
The ideas of Social control here have now become really scary and it is not socialism that sensible people fear it is Fascism.
Really, it is on the rise again in Europe, and it is very frightening.
I know many of you are afraid of universal healthcare and the implications of it, but if it is done right, and if the politicians listen to the experts and to you, then it can be a really good thing. It is not going to make you socialist and certainly not communist. Americans are the pioneers and too used to being free thinkers for Communism to ever be considered there.
Would Jesus shut the door on any child in need.
We pay 9% out of our wages for healthcare and pensions, and thatisonly after a set amount is protected as a basic level. Once we earn overthat amount then we pay this percentage, and we are assured of our basic state pension. If we earn more it is our choice to set aside an additional pension. It is good enough, and although we complain we would not be without it. But these days there are many that are never satisfied.
What ever happens over there itwill be a modern and well planned system, and not the creaking groaning antiquated system we re trying to update over here.
I live in the UK and was born here. I get really stuffy sometimes about our own system, and I have real issues with the politics here, but I thought I would just give you an honest overview of how things are here.
Several times I have seen the idea in your posts about Socialism and Communism, and even a quote from Kruschev, apologies for the spelling.
First let me tell you take anything he said with a pinch of salt. He was a famous wit, and had a very bad temper, he was famous for taking off his shoe and banging the table in the UN.
But his greatest joy was to wind up anyone from the west. OK, it was a wind up. Also he was so far removed from Socialism it can not be true. He was Communist in the most real sense of the word. Remember this : Communism: All pigs are equal but some pigs are more equal than others. It comes from Animal Farm and just about sums it up.
Now can you tell me of anyone who saw any communist leader arrive on a bicylce??? The states we have seen as Communist in this world have been a joke. Chairman Mao, his people were starving and he was floating in a huge swimming pool with a string of beautiful girls paid to satisfy his needs. The Russians, all drove around in huge cars looking very well heeled while their people were digging in the dirt.
None of these leader lived in the slums with their people.
Ok Now Socialism.... someone here mentioned Jesus. Well Jesus was the first socialist if you like. Never mind about the fancy definitions, socialism is an Ideal, and like all ideals it is the stuff of dreams. Jesus did not see borders or social divisions between people, we were all just children of God. he never refused help. he did not gather money and wealth. he said "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the world".
Another dream.
here in the UK there are people with very strong socialist ideas. There are also a few communists I am sure, but most people just want to get on and live their lives and are very happy that we pay a small amount out of our wages each week and if we are ill we can just turn up at the doctors or the hospital and we will get treatment.
IT IS NOT PERFECT.
It could never be perfect. Health is not something you can quantify and slap on a balance sheet.
There is a constant drive to make things better, and to be honest there is a real drive here these days to make things far more American.
The problem is that decisions are not made by doctors, they are made by politicians. The other problem is that there is no bottomless pit of money. So it will never be perfect.
As for the politics here believe me it is not scoialist, not now or has it ever been. We are supposed to be socialist (kind of) we are also supposed to be democratic.... lol.
But all countries now have a new God... it is money. the politicians will get elected that can put the most money back into your pocket, and when elections come around unless you are really sick at the time nobody cares about health they arell lookingto get their taxes reduced.
I had a student from Kurdistan once who asked me at election time if we asked our politicians how much they spend on the arms trade? How many of them are involved in it? I could only answer no we don't ask those questions, because at the time they are not important to us.
We are not facing the bullets. but that is changing now.
It is the same with health. yes we have a universal healthcare system, but now we are getting health tourism. We also have a hypocratic oath that doctors swear when they qualifiy, nowthey are being forced to go against this. Because of Health tourism they are being told t refuse treatment to people in need until they can establish where to send the bill.
I used to work with asylum seekers and refugees. they are entitled to healthcare here, as long as they are in the system, but I took a young woman who did not speak English to the hospital as she had arrived heavily pregnant and in agony, we had not had timeto process her papers. Recepetion at the hospital wouldnot let her through untilthey had taken her home address to send her the Bill. This girl had survived her entire family being killed and her home being burned to the ground, she was going to need a Caesarian Operation to save her baby due to FGM, and they made her wait until I had paid the taxi to find out where to send her Invoice.
I have been trucking myself around our health system for 2 years now. I have been in a lot of pain, seen 4 specialists, and still have only very floppy diagnosis. I am not happy...lol. But I am not dying. I am just very uncomfortable. I will get there in the end.
Our Doctors are amazing, not always, but mostly. It is the system and the management of it that is creaking. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians.
But the essence of the Health service here means that people will get treatment if a child falls froma tree and their mum has no money they will be treated, if they have a life threatening illness they will get treated. the doctors and nurses, especially the nurses here are brilliant and they care somuch just as many of you do who are working in health. The truth is that nothingwill ever be perfect, but the people who do their jobs do their very best.
Yes there are people here who will take advantage, who will rip off the system, and that is the area that neds to be tightened up, at the moment we are all assumed to be guilty until proven innocent here.
But again the people making the decisions are not listening tothe people who know. they are so arrogant they believe they have all the answers, and it casues problems. They refused to listen to teachers and now our education system is failing, they refused to listen to health professionals and they are still doing battle with that system.
If they do it right in the beginning then it is a great relief. Ohhh and by the way if you have money here you can still buck the system and get all your little heart desires.
The ideas of Social control here have now become really scary and it is not socialism that sensible people fear it is Fascism.
Really, it is on the rise again in Europe, and it is very frightening.
I know many of you are afraid of universal healthcare and the implications of it, but if it is done right, and if the politicians listen to the experts and to you, then it can be a really good thing. It is not going to make you socialist and certainly not communist. Americans are the pioneers and too used to being free thinkers for Communism to ever be considered there.
Would Jesus shut the door on any child in need.
We pay 9% out of our wages for healthcare and pensions, and thatisonly after a set amount is protected as a basic level. Once we earn overthat amount then we pay this percentage, and we are assured of our basic state pension. If we earn more it is our choice to set aside an additional pension. It is good enough, and although we complain we would not be without it. But these days there are many that are never satisfied.
What ever happens over there itwill be a modern and well planned system, and not the creaking groaning antiquated system we re trying to update over here.
