To the horse people out there....

[welsummerchicks]

The other thing about horse people is that there are a lot of different kinds, and too the types are shifting as the economy changes.

In some areas you have people who keep horses in a very simple way, very basic, much as our farming forefathers did, and often right along side them, people who do things very differently. Some horses are more suitable to one way, some to the other way.

And because of the economy changing, a lot of moderate income level families can no longer afford to keep a horse, so in some areas, the only people that have horses are the more wealthy, those who can afford higher board costs, etc. Property taxes have gone up in many areas, and land has gotten more expensive. Over the last 10 years or so I have seen a lot of people get out of horses. All the costs have gone up - even for pretty simple, basic horse keeping.

 

[yankeegirl]

E.M. Silkies :

That's awesome that you do competitive trail!

I'll be honest, I've done arena classes and I don't have a clue what their looking for. I mean how do you appeal to the judges when every horse in that class is doing the same thing at the same time?! I like the competitions where my horse and I are competing against ourselves and our previous scores. We improve together and as a reward, get to move up through the levels.

If you prefer to compete against yourself, in the English world, you're talking jumping and dressage. Dressage they look for the patterns and the accuracy with which those patterns are performed. Jumping, of course, is clearing the course in the best time. Hunter/jumper shows are good for getting the "lookie loos" out of a young horse. There is a lot of activity, the horse gets used to all of the strange horses and in the "flat" classes, gets used to being in the ring with others (which helps when you move onto Dressage and jumping, less distracting).

I found the hunter/jumper world a bit snobby. But, it all comes down to finding a good trainer in a friendly barn and then quite frankly, it doesn't matter how snooty somebody else is, you have your own support group with you.

What they look for in "arena" classes, if it's hunter/jumper that you're speaking of, is dependent on the class. If it's equitation class, they are looking at you, how your seat is, your aides, etc. If it's straight walk/trot/canter they are looking more at the horse's gait, how smooth, how comfortable it would be to ride said horse with its gait over a long day of hunting. Hopefully that explanation makes a bit of sense to you (not real good with trying to figure out how to put it in words) and clears up a little bit of what the judges are looking for.​

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

Quote:
This is nothing new. The trend started 30-40 years ago that I am aware of. Actually it probably really started right after WWII, but we just didn't notice it at first. In my youth, it was uncommon to see registered horses as backyard horses. We've been trading up for a long time and the meat man got our leavings until just recently. Now grade horses are becoming much less common and mostly everyone is riding something registered somewhere. I can remember open shows where you wouldn't see a single registered animal competing in the whole show. Imagine that happening today. And as the grades disappear, so does keeping horses on the cheap. Most folks do not plunk down thousands and turn that animal out in a pasture with lots of other people's horses to get kicked and bit and what-have-you. That was fine for their $50 horse but not their $5000 one. Now they protect their investment with stalls and decent fencing and formal lessons, farrier visits, vet visits, and massage therapists!

Also, as the price of land has gone up, so has the quality of the horses kept on that land and the level of their care. Used to be that everyone with a bit of land kept horses on it. Now I live in an area of farms and homes on acreage. The road I live on is 5 miles long and the smallest place is about 10 acres, yet I am the only one on it that has horses.

Rusty

 

[kstaven]

Quote:
Have you tried the horse section at BYH?

 

[welsummerchicks]

Agree with Rusty that patterns of horse ownership have been changing for a long time. Many areas of America have changed from rural to suburb or city. Land use changes have been especially extreme around the northeast USA, and over the last - I think 90 years, the US has gone from 92 % of its people employed in some way connected with agriculture, to 2%. But if you look at a map of the USA, you find it really looks like a fancy quilt - some areas are very rural and others, often right next to them, are very built up. And since most of us move quite a few times in our lives, people from very different horse owning traditions are thrown together. And on the internet - my gosh - you have all kinds of different backgrounds and experience of people thrown together even more.

I still can't understand the Mustang thing on bulletin boards. That's very strange. I wouldn't expect that reaction at all. I would expect the total opposite.

Once a lady came here and said the people on the other bb's were very mean and snobby and arrogant to her because she owned a mule. I went and read the threads she was talking about- and to be perfectly honest, the thread was totally nothing like how she had said here.

She had lied about having a mule and pretended it was a horse. The mule experts on the board said why do that - it's important to tell people that when asking a training question as mules have very different reactions than horses. I love mules, but they ARE different to train from horses. So in that case, that lady really was not treated like what she claimed here, plus people were actually nice to her considering how she was acting. Not one 'snobby' statement was made, in fact.

On most boards, anyone who showed up with a Mustang would be cheered. Most of the bb's have an 'underdog' mentality and cheer anyone trying any riding sport with a 'non traditional' breed. Not only that, there's a mystique around Mustangs, so that many people see adopting a Mustang as our patriotic duty to save a vanishing population - and there are MANY threads about how the government should manage them differently - so it's a subject near and dear to many hearts.

Very often, it even gets a little crazy in the OTHER direction - 'Entering your Clydesdale in the Kentucky Derby? Follow your Dreams!!!' Sometimes people get way TOO 'underdoggy'. They start to get kind of impractical. Anyone would laugh if I said I was going to excel in NBA-level basketball...there just aren't too many Hobbits in that league!

It is quite true that certain breeds have been developed for a specific use. Horses with mostly Thoroughbred blood tend to do well in longer speed events like eventing. Quarter horses tend to do well in the shorter speed events.

And if someone says it is really more than a little unfair to the horse to push him real hard to do work he's not built for, that really is very true. It's not being 'snobby' at all - just sensible.

At the top levels of a sport, when you really get to the toughest competitions in the world, the horse that was bred for that work is a lot more likely to win - or even - to qualify and compete at those big things. The top ranks of Endurance riding are pretty much populated by pure Arabian horses. The top draft/pulling competitions, by full bred Draft breeds. And so on.

And even there, even if you look at the top ranks, there are only a handful of horses that are good enough, even out of the purpose bred breeds, to make it to the topmost competition.

But what many people who are novices in riding don't yet understand, at the most basic levels of a sport, almost any healthy, willing horse can compete and the rider can have a lot of fun.

For example, I've seen Mustangs at the beginner level of horse trials - doing basic dressage, a little jumping, a little cross country run. But I've also seen Arabians, Draft breeds, half-draft crosses, Fjord Ponies, Icelandic horses, etc.

You can see almost any breed at all, in basic dressage competition - either Western or English types. You can see a good many different Western style breeds in Western riding classes. Some of the more compact, shorter Thoroughbreds do incredibly well in Barrel Racing, though it's been something of a tradition for years to say that only Quarter Horses can really excell at it, as it's the sort of short dashes and quick turns Quarter Horses were bred for. But these days several breeds carry mostly Quarter Horse blood, and they do well at it as well.

And as far as just having some fun, a person can try almost anything with their horse and have a lot of fun - a few of my friends with warmblood horses intended for dressage, have had a little fun doing cattle sorting, and it's not at all unusual for dressagies to trail ride, jump, gallop and the like, even as you get closer to the higher levels of competition.

The bottom line is the same though - its not a good idea to get real upset about ANYTHING on internet forums....or to totally believe news items and get all worked up about them...but that's a whole NOTHER story!!!!

 

[E.M. Silkies]

Quote:
I hope you don't think I posted on here to be nasty about other forums, or that I'm really getting upset about it. My goal was to see if anyone else was experiencing the same as me, and everyone on here tends to be really friendly! I figured if I found the horse people on here we could talk about everything here and not have to go through the 'snobby' people on other forums

I don't feel like people can get upset about what's being said to them just because they don't like it. Kind of what the lady with the mulse was doing. It sounds to me like she didn't like the responses she was getting and came here to fuss about it. For me, I haven't had anyone say anything nasty directly to me(I post very little on other forums) but I read what people are saying to others. For example, I read where a girl was struggling with her horse. She stated that she was a decent rider with quiet hands but her horse was still fussy about one thing in particular(can't remember what is was now). Anyways, the responses were telling her that she needed to change the way she rides and that her horse's problems were all based on her. I thought that was kind of out there. I mean, she never posted so much of a picture, let alone a video. I might understand saying "Hey, you might want to change your seat in this way." or "You might want to try adjusting your hands this way." All it said was that she was riding incorrectly. I will say this too. I've been on Chronicle of the Horse and there are definitely several good groups on there. Like Trail Riding, Horse Care, and the Fox Hunters seem nice. The H/J though, I will most likely avoid.

Sorry for the rant. I promise I'm not trying to be negative, just pointing out what I've observed and getting opinions from people on here.

 

[Quinn4321]

E.M Silkies -- I definately understand that you are not bashing on the other forums, and I applaud you for working onwards through any problems.

However, to the general public-- I have several Hunter/jumper friends, and they are not snobby. While I find the competition DOES tend to be rather snobbby, please understand that not all the individuals are that way. Thanks.

 

[welsummerchicks]

E.M. Silkies :

Quote:
I hope you don't think I posted on here to be nasty about other forums,

No, I don't, I'm just remembering other occasions when this has come up - and I did want to get a chance to mention that the lady who came here before and complained about 'snobs' actually had gotten some very polite responses, and a bunch of people just mystified as to why she would say she had a horse and not a mule. But it's just really odd as on most bb's, Mustangs are really popular.

or that I'm really getting upset about it. My goal was to see if anyone else was experiencing the same as me, and everyone on here tends to be really friendly! I figured if I found the horse people on here we could talk about everything here and not have to go through the 'snobby' people on other forums

I think an awful ot of it isn't 'snobbism' at all, but just what happens on bulletin boards - 'bulletin board dynamics is a REAL nice word for it. A certain clique very often gets very comfortable there, and they basically rule the roost with a pretty free rein. And like chickens, they pick on the new chick!!!!!!!

I don't feel like people can get upset about what's being said to them just because they don't like it.

Maybe there's a typo up there so I won't say I disagree or agree - my own feeling is that people very often get upset about what they don't like hearing and most people like to hear someone agreeing with them! There's a lot of research that people's motivation in coming on the internet, isn't generally to get information, but to find others who agree with them - very often the one who asks questions betrays some TRACE of not agreeing with the majority, without realizing it.

TOO - What happens is that certain opinions are 'okay' on one forum and not another. For example, here, you better not even suggest that foie gras production can be kind - or ever is okay - you'll get slammed. Enough people here are so against it that you'll get your hair blown back if you even suggest you like eating it, let alone anything else about it - some will be polite in disagreeing and some will NOT. On another web site, griping about horse slaughter will get you hammered - it's just a matter of what the majority or the loudest or most leader people on the bb believe. One one forum, announcing that a popular horse trainer was convicted of child molestation will evince a universal horror and shock reaction. ON ANOTHER SITE - you'd be accused of 'bearing a grudge' or 'making it up' or 'having a vendetta'.

Kind of what the lady with the mulse was doing. It sounds to me like she didn't like the responses she was getting and came here to fuss about it.

Again, the well researched and proven picture - people largely come to various websites to find people who agree with them - not to learn new things, not to find out information - or else that is more superficial and the real goal is to find 'like minded people'. To find people who agree - very often, these 'agreements' run along political lines - even when they're about schooling, food choices, all sorts of things. Most people get really mad if you suggest this is a political bent rather than, 'just commonsense and the best thing for our country'.

You'll often read on forums, if one agrees with another, ,one will write, 'You are my new best friend'. YIKES! Is that what a friend is? SOmeone who always agrees?!!?!!? When it's about 'I don't really have a drinking problem' or 'I don't think I should respond to this warrant for my arrest', I HOPE friends don't always agree!!!!



For me, I haven't had anyone say anything nasty directly to me(I post very little on other forums) but I read what people are saying to others. For example, I read where a girl was struggling with her horse. She stated that she was a decent rider with quiet hands but her horse was still fussy about one thing in particular(can't remember what is was now).

Anyways, the responses were telling her that she needed to change the way she rides and that her horse's problems were all based on her. I thought that was kind of out there. I mean, she never posted so much of a picture, let alone a video.

Well, I hate to say it, but 'you have to change how you ride' is a very honest and very truthful statement with problems like that, as well as many other problems with horses. As my old timey trainer told me, 'They go how they are rode'.

Where novices go wrong there, is they think the answer to EVERYTHING for EVERY horse, for EVERY situation, is to drop the reins so they have no contact with the horse's mouth.

I might understand saying "Hey, you might want to change your seat in this way." or "You might want to try adjusting your hands this way." All it said was that she was riding incorrectly.

Yeah, but the problem is - it's true. But the thing is 'incorrectly' doesn't mean 'You are condemned to burn in Hades' or 'we hate you'. It just means incorrectly. Incorrectly HOW? Well, that they really can't tell - it isn't even always obvious in a video or photo!

But if the horse is fussing with his head, the rider is 'riding incorrectly'. That much is, sorry to say, true. The $100 question, though, is always, 'IN WHAT WAY'?

And a lot of things that are 'incorrect' for one horse never bother another horse. That's the trick of it.

I've got one horse that you could yank on the reins all day and he wouldn't mind. Do it once on the other one, and you'll be on the floor picking dirt out of your teeth.

But on Mr. 'Go Ahead and Yank My Reins', you better not bounce on the saddle - he can and has - taken off at a dead run when someone bounced on the saddle ONCE. Just a little bit, too.

The bottom line is the perennial BB problem that comes up time after time- novice riders buying untrained or unsuitable horses ,and now there's a big problem. MOST people need a very laid back, relaxed type of horse that isn't bothered by much and is very easy to ride. They're best off that way. Most of us aren't headed for the Olympics. We need a nice, kind, generous horse. We ride 'incorrectly' a horse that is way too touchy for us, way too untrained, or just way too active or anxious.

NOVICES though...they think a problem like that ALWAYS comes from only one reason - the one reason they ran into riding their own horse last week. Or the one they see around them a lot.

For example, on bb's you often hear this reaction to rearing: 'Stop yanking the heck out of the horse's mouth with the reins!'. WELL.....rearing occurs for a lot of different reasons - yanking the heck out of the reins? Sure sometimes. But I've also seen it happen because someone just doesn't use their leg enough, or there is slightly more rein than leg, and it don't look rough or mean at all in that case. Or it was an untrained youngster who wanted to go over and be with the horses eating in the pasture....or they just bought a horse, got on it, and UP IT WENT!!!

I will say this too. I've been on Chronicle of the Horse and there are definitely several good groups on there. Like Trail Riding, Horse Care, and the Fox Hunters seem nice. The H/J though, I will most likely avoid.

I think no matter what sort of board it is or what group it is, you can almost always figure out a way to get along with them. What an awful lot of people do, is come onto a new board, and read a lot of posts, and find out what subjects are hot buttons, and what sort of approach seems to go well - an awful lot of people create one login to 'break in' on a new forum, and make their mistakes. Then they stop using that account, and make a new account, so they have a fresh start without anyone having built up any ideas about them.

The approach that ALWAYS works on ANY bb is to get on there and create a login called 'HJ-beginner' or the like, and to proclaim yourself a total beginner and say, 'thanks so much!' to every single post. Praise other posters a lot that seem popular and in control, and be nice to everyone. IN OTHER WORDS - it operates JUST LIKE a junior high school girl clique - or any office with any sort of business office, LOL!!!! You just figure out what the landmines are, proclaim yourself a lowly beginner seeking aid, and say, 'thanks so much, lots of great points and much to think about!' And put a lot of smiley faces on things.

Sorry for the rant. I promise I'm not trying to be negative, just pointing out what I've observed and getting opinions from people on here.

I think it's all about deciding what you want. You can be honest and say just what's on your mind and what you agree with or don't agree with, and live with how people are going to treat you - which is BAD. You'll be wrong some times, and they'll prove you're wrong. Just plain old wrong, and that's embarrasing.

But.....You'll be right sometimes, and they'll ignore you, pick your comments apart, or just ridicule you.

If you've put out any personal info, they'll getcha.

When it comes to horses, things can get pretty hot and heavy

Or there won't be a wrong or right, there'll be an opinion - 'I like Arabs better than Quarter Horses', for example. There is no wrong or right on that. But that doesn't matter - you'll plain old get hammered if you voice a point of view that the majority on the forum want to believe.

There isn't any logic or sense to how these forums operate. Too, people learn the style, point of view of the moderators and the rules on these bb's and they learn how to make them work for themselves and against others.

OR...just like any office, club, or any other place where people clique up, you find out where the landmines are, be real nice to the people who seem to be ruling the roost, and keep light on your feet...LOL.

You have to remember that the people who are popular on these forums are not usually the most knowledgeable ones or the ones giving the most accurate advice. They're the ones with the ability to manage their image.

One of the most popular people on one bb, I got to know her a little more than I wanted to. She made a practice of saying 'oh what a shame' every time people announced their horse was sick or hurt. She donated some time and money to a horse rescue (very loudly, I might add...LOL), and she always sympathized with any 'underdog' - the one who lost at the show or got bawled out at the riding stable. AND she congratulated all the winners! She just knew how to work her image perfectly.

IN TRUTH...she was horrific, LOL. She spent most of her private time gossiping about others and cutting down people at her barn, and telling me how much better she rode than them. After she went to a riding clinic with a top trainer, she spent hours telling me how another rider had problems there, and then hours telling me why the problems SHE had at the clinic were not her fault. She ragged on people who didn't ride 'at a high enough level', she ragged on the people at her barn endlessly, for every little move they made - they were beginners and not very knowledgeable, but as far as she was concerned, they were just lazy, stubborn, etc. Finally after a couple months I told her I didn't want to hear from her any more unless she could stop talking and pm'ing about people in that fashion. Never spoke to me again....but MAN is she popular on the horse forum!​

 

[E.M. Silkies]

Quote:
I totally understand that not everyone is that way! I'm hoping that as I try out different disciplines, I'll be able to get in with really good, friendly groups(like your friends). I know their our there! In fact, I know a H/J instructor that I believe has a really nice group of students and that's who I'm hoping to go to for instruction. I'm hoping that when I concretely decide on a discipline, I'll have a nice instructor and get to meet her other students and wind up with show buddies. I'm of a firm belief that you go to a competition and cheer everyone on! I would love to have a group that I cheer on from the sidelines and have a group that cheers me on from the sidelines. It makes it fun for everyone!

I've never been to a H/J show but I have been to watch horse trials, and a lot of people there seemed to be very friendly. I think it's just a matter of finding a group that you mesh with!

 

[welsummerchicks]

Everybody likes eventers (horse trial, etc)!

In fact, a dressage rider friend of mine told me she goes to 3 day events to get a break from dressage riders, LOL!!! As sort of a rude joke.

Everyone tends to gripe about hunt seat show riders, but for me, I find that there's a 'snobby' group in EVERY discipline - and a real NICE group too. You really can find nice folks in any riding sport - it's just a matter of getting to know people.