To those who did NOT or will not vaccinate

[lisahaschickens]

I did my own research on the topic and I chose to vaccinate against Marek's and Coccidiosis, but nothing else. I chose this because most organic standards do allow for these two vaccinations, but no others. Also, I have read too many terrible things about Marek's and about the horrible death they die and about the lasting potential for its being contagious. And Coccidiosis comes from their poop and since they walk around in it, get it in their water and feed, etc (no matter how diligent we are about cleaning, this happens a bit), when they are very young, it can overwhelm their systems before their immunity kicks in... and since the vaccine is ok according to organic standards, I think it's OK to help them for those first two days.

I do agree that we should invade minimally and raising them organically is my number one priority, but keep in mind that the chicken is an animal that was created by humans and is no longer "native" to anywhere. They are originally from the jungles of Southeast Asia... so we do not keep them in their native environment, if you can even call it that. They are being exposed to unnatural conditions simply by being born a chicken and raised by humans in varying climates and locations. Just like it is not easy for chickens to scratch out a healthy existence on 100% free-range (no feed, no coop), it is also not natural for them to be born with an ability to survive the various biological threats in this man-made environment. If your chicken gets overloaded with worms, do you just let it suffer and die... or even let it be unhealthy and not lay well? The worms they get here in North America (or wherever you are located) are not the same worms (for the most part) that they would even get in their "native" Southeast Asia. They are exposed to soils, insects, and wild birds that they have not naturally evolved to live with. And, as far as nature's taking its course... we tossed that out the window long ago when we domesticated and bred these fowl for our own purposes... creating fantastical new traits that never existed in nature.

So, I believe that it is our duty as humans to fulfill our side of the bargain - we took them from the wild, bred them according to our whims and needs... to get the best meat, eggs, feathers, etc... and in turn, they have become unable to survive on their own. Thus, we must take care of them in this man-made setting. We must give them the tools they need to have the best chance of survival. Now, this doesn't mean everyone should go out and coddle every little sickly, weakling, inbred runt... or pump their birds full of chemicals and antibiotics. No, minimal chemical and physical interference is still ideal in my mind as it translates to less-contaminated birds, environments, and people. But to make a case for "letting nature take its course" when it comes to chickens in a general sense, I think that's pretty silly. This is just my own opinion.

In my own mind, the ideal situation is to use the most helpful and least potentially dangerous vaccines and medicines only when reasonable and necessary - the problem today is that chickens (especially industrially-farmed chickens) are doused with every anti-biotic and vaccine the farmers can get their hands on, in an effort to maximize profit and minimize disease without any real thought or consideration for the situation in mind. Just like you shouldn't go to a doctor who prescribes you antibiotics every time you get a cold (antibiotics only treat bacterial infections and do nothing for a cold or flu and only increase your own resistance to the effectiveness of antibiotics in the future), you also shouldn't vaccinate your birds against every possible thing and give them medications and anitbiotics as preventatives "just in case." I think more thought should be put into it than that, and take a minimal approach.

These are just my own thoughts. Thanks for listening.

 

[MandyH]

Don't vaccinate, never have. I hatched about 4000 chicks last year and have not had a problem with any of them being diseased. I DO NOT buy any live birds to bring here to my farm, and I DO NOT allow anyone to just mingle around the place either. My little birds are born here, build up their immune systems here, and I have not had one complaint from any of the hundreds of people that have bought chicks from me.

 

[KatyTheChickenLady]

That's a lot of good information.
As for me what I posted was my opinion and thoughts as asked for; I don't have many facts regarding this other than that I choose not to vaccinate for several reasons. The biggest being we eat the eggs and meat and I don't want any more "outside stuff" in it than possible. I Feed medicated starter through the stage where cocidiosus (yes I am sure spelled that wrong ) is a threat then move to all non-medicated feed.
Those are just my thoughts on the subject, and I respecfully absorb the information that is "pro" vacine as it seems to come from people with much more experience and education on the matter than I.
Also, should I loose half my flock to a horrible disease I think I would be quick to regret and realize my folly. I hope I stay lucky. I do vaccinate my children, dogs, horses etc. . . but we don' eat them.

 

[flakey chick]

I did not vaccinate because it was recommended against for small flocks. Based on infection models, the risks of not vaccinating increase with flock size but the risks from vaccinating do not depend on flock size.

After my experience, I feel a bit different. I ordered 10 st run bantams, 5 BR and 5EE. Looking back at the videos I can see from day 1 that the BR seemed to have nuerological issues. I lost 4 of the BR, and the last was the most heartbreaking of all. It was a lot of stress and work keeping their poopy butts clean and wondering if and when it was time to cull. I was on BYC emergencies posting for help. I finally decided to cull the last one. I was convinced she was just suffering, but when I went to cull her, she put up a real fight. I decided I would let her leave this world on her own terms and let her fight to the end. Looking UF's "Common Poultry Diseases" link it looks like it was some type of encephalitis. That's not one of the more commonly available vaccines.

Although the birds weren't that expensive, it was a painful heart-wrenching experience to watch them go through. I ended up with only 2 birds out of 10 (because 4 survivors were roos). But even if I had ordered vaccinations, they probably wouldn't have been vaccinated for what killed them.

 

[mmtillman]

Quote:
I had not even considered this factor, when I choose not to vaccinate. Like one of the above post, I didnt vaccinate for cost reasons...but after reading all the very helpful post, I feel confident that I made the right decision.
But, does this also include not adding the little drops of antibotics that the feed store recommends putting in the chicks water for the first few days upon arrival??...That didnt seem as harsh as the vaccinations done at the hatchery....hope someone can elaborate on this ?? Thanks!!

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

When a hypothetical wild bird carrying Marek's flies into my chicken pen and exposes them all, I fail to see how or why the size of my flock has anything to do with how feasible/infeasible it was to vaccinate them.

What I do understand is why it's in a "chicken mill" hatchery's best interest, business wise, to persuade people not to vaccinate.

Heck, I'll hatch out one peep and expend an entire 1,000-dose bottle of Marek's vaccine for it.

What exactly is a "small flock" anyways? Isn't it always too small?

 

[horsejody]

I just checked Welp Hatchery's website they recommend vaccinating for Marek's also. I think that they are a hatchery of merit also.

Okalhoma State Poultry Dept Website:
Mareks
Prevention: Vaccinate at hatching. All birds hatched should be vaccinated for Marek’s disease. Requests for vaccinations should be made on birds purchased from mail order hatcheries.


Mississippi State website:
A good disease prevention program should be considered when rearing pullets. One-day old chicks should be vaccinated at the hatchery for Newcastle, infectious bronchitis and Marek's diseases. The birds should be revaccinated at four to five weeks and 16 weeks of age for Newcastle disease, using the B1type vaccine in the drinking water. The same method should be used at 16 weeks for infectious bronchitis.

Young pullets are usually vaccinated for fowl pox at 12 weeks of age using the wing-web stab method. In areas where fowl pox has previously been a problem or where mosquitoes are frequently found near poultry flocks, the pullets may have to be vaccinated for fowl pox as early as one day of age. To prevent outbreaks of coccidiosis, pullets should be provided a ration containing an effective coccidiostat until they reach 14-20 weeks of age. A summary of a good disease prevention program is shown. This program should be used as well as sound sanitation practices. Both are equally important in preventing disease.
Disease Prevention Program Disease Vaccination Schedule
Newcastle Disease In hatchery or at 4 days using the drinking water method.
Revaccinate at 4 weeks and 16 weeks in the drinking water with B1 type vaccine.

Infectious Bronchitis In hatchery or at 4 days using the drinking water method.
Revaccinate at 16 weeks using drinking water method.

Marek's Disease In hatchery using subcutaneous injection.

Fowl Pox Vaccinate at 12 weeks of age using wing-web stab method.
As early as 1 day of age if mosquitoes are present.

Coccidiosis Daily feeding of drug in ration (up to 14-20 weeks).

Please don't think that any vet or hatchery of merit doesn't recommend vaccinating. I know many choose not to, but please don't make that decision based on a misconception.

 

[lisahaschickens]

in response to mmtillman, my own opinion is that antibiotics are the most important thing to avoid giving to livestock. Antibiotics ONLY treat bacterial infections, so giving them to baby chicks is useless in most cases. And what is worse is that it makes them more resistant to antibiotics should they actually need them for a legitimate infection down the road. Also, feeding antibiotics to chickens translates to antibiotics in eggs and meat eventually, which increases our own resistance. My own opinion is that antibiotics are the number one most overly-prescribed drug in the nation for both humans and animals. They are extremely important for fighting infections, but they are giving far too liberally and without cause and they end up doing more harm than good. This is all the same thing as wiping your house down with bleach every day and washing your hands with anti-bacterial soap constantly. Those chemicals are harmful when used constantly, plus you end up killing off all teh beneficial bacteria along with the bad and prevent yourself and your family from being able to build up natural immune responses.

As for vaccinations, most are not "harsh" at all. The way most work is that they expose the body to a tiny, often dead, amount of the virus, which helps your body create an immunity to it. True, tiny percentages of an animal, humans included, that are vaccinated can have adverse reactions, but surely that is better than widespread devastation from things like Marek's (in birds) and polio, rabies, tetanus, rubella, etc in humans. My own opinion is that not all vaccines are necessary. I think that it's perfectly fine and natural, and probably even better for small children to go through a bout of chicken pox, and for a perfectly healthy child (not baby) or adult (not sick or eldery) to contract and fight off a flu. I don't like the idea of vaccinating healthy people against these things... and same thing with birds. I don't think we should vaccinate against every single concievable thing... just the main, easily preventable things that have safe vaccines and can make a big difference.

Again, my own opinion only.

 

[wefroggy]

I chose to vaccinate, just cause this is my first batch. I wish I hadn't though. One of the reasons I have my own birds is so I know what I am feeding my family. It seems now that getting them vaccinated defeats that purpose. In future, my chicks will be from my flock or un vaccinated.

 

[Beekissed]

I think that you are saying is that you only want one side of the argument. Why would you want a one sided discussion?

I can understand the OPs desire to hear from others who have chosen to not vaccinate. For the simple reason that, when one makes a decision of which they are not sure~ but they feel is the correct one~ they like to hear some support of the fact that their decision is a sound one.

When I've made up my mind, it doesn't mean I'm not open to opposing views, but I'm not really as interested in them....the deed is done. Decision made. Just like to hear that others have made the same choice and maybe for similar reasons. Tells you that your gut feeling was right!