To those who did NOT or will not vaccinate

[MandyH]

How many people that are ordering vaccinated birds ever go back and give the boosters at 16 weeks and such?? I have never seen on this site anyone say they gave boosters after they ordered their vaccinated chicks.

 

[root_mama]

USDA Guy: If you can post the ingredients to those vaxes and they don't contain Aluminum, Mercury (Thimerisol), or Formaldehyde, I'll vax my chicks right now. If they do contain those chemicals, then you couldn't pay me enough to do it. I will be eating their eggs if not their flesh someday. Mercury especially is a HUGE problem in our food chain and environment and how much do I want to be it is still in the Chick vaxes? Well I'd bet at least a chick, that's for sure.

The pharmaceutical industry has some serious 'splainin to do with regard to the 'extra' ingredients in these vaxes. And I don't see how a scientist could be like 'I don't see why not' when we are faced with this very real pollution.

 

[root_mama]

It is amazing all these posts and not one lists the actual ingredients. I have no problem with the idea of vaccination, but I think the way we do it to animals and people is hopelessly crude and backwards. What fool decided to inject people with mercury and aluminum in the first place. And really I would be surprised if we were doing the chicks better than we do the kids.

It's pretty simple, I only eat stuff that I can read and okay the ingredients on, and I will do the same for my chicks, before I actually bypass their digestive system and go right into their bloodstream.

 

[Akane]

But, does this also include not adding the little drops of antibotics that the feed store recommends putting in the chicks water for the first few days upon arrival??...That didnt seem as harsh as the vaccinations done at the hatchery....hope someone can elaborate on this ??

I would vaccinate way before I'd add antibiotics without a reason. It often only makes the animals weaker. Both because they don't build their own immune system and many antibiotics can cause diarhea or stress the body. It also contributes to resistent strains of bacteria that will not be killed by antibiotics. Later if your flock gets sick and the common antibiotics don't work that could be part of the reason why.

I don't vaccinate because I find the risk of disease fairly low. There are risks with vaccines so unless the risk of disease goes past the potential health risks of a vaccine I won't do it. There are minimal flocks within several miles of me and I don't come in contact with any other flocks. I only come in contact with anyone who has been around other birds besides wild when I go to the feed store. The only real threat to my flock is wild birds which mostly have not come in contact with any domestic birds. I also have not heard of any outbreaks in my area, I do not buy birds from anyone, and I do not go to shows. Should any of those things change I would start vaccinating. It's not the size of the flock. It's the potential for exposure. Smaller flocks tend to have a lower potential for exposure but not always.​

 

[Beekissed]

Make one wonder why they used these particular preservatives when there were many other, more safe, preservatives available.... and before someone tells you they are no longer using Thimerosol, I was still required to ask if one was allergic to this ingredient on the consent forms for our flu injection clinics back in 2003.

I haven't given any flu shots since then, but I would venture to say it hasn't changed much, and I'm sure that goes double for animal vaccinations.

 

[JessaLynn]

This may be alittle off subject but here goes...
what's the risks if any of mixing a flock of some vaccinated for Mereck's and some that are not?? I have some adult chickens that I didn't vaccinate and have since ordered chicks this time those are vaccinated.Never thought about this till now.

 

[Lobzi]

My hen and one roo came from wild stock off a horse farm. I have one roo that was hatched from eggs most likely purchased from a hatchery. I have a third roo who I found in street and know little about.
So far I have not had any illness among my chickens. I figure the chicks my hen is going to hatch at the end of this month wont need any vaccines as they come from extremely healthy stock. I do wonder about the health of hatchery birds.... I wonder if there is a lot of inbreeding that causes healthy issues. I amy resisting purchasing birds or eggs from hatcheries.
That is my reasoning for not using any vaccines on my chickens and their off-spring.

 

[patandchickens]

I can see a reasonably compelling rationale for Marek's vaccination. I would for SURE do it if I'd ever had a case or if many people in my area did; and I am quite willing to think that I might be better off just doing it anyhow. (I don't, though. Sort of six-of-one-half-dozen-of-the-other, to me, and with a basically closed flock and minimal wild bird contact and generally healthy unstressed birds, I think my risks are not too high. Plus, not to be too coldblooded about it, but fond as I am of them, they are 'only' chickens).

I don't see me vaccinating the chickens for any of the other things available though. As others have said, I would rather let natural selection pick the most *constitutively*-resistant birds, and also I think the risks are really pretty low in my particular setup.

I wish there was a vaccination for mites though

I do vaccinate cats and horses for rabies, and cats for respiratory stuff if I expect getting a new cat in the next year, and horses for tetanus and West Nile; and the children have gotten the 'core' childhood vaccinations although certainly not everything that is available <rolling eyes>. If that helps calibrate my response re: chickens.


Pat

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
AFAIK there are no adjuvants (or at least, haven't been -- dunno about the last few yrs) that are safer BUT ALSO AS EFFECTIVE. Certainly there is ongoing research into the subject and new adjuvants continue to be developed and put onto the market, with safety being prioritized much more highly than it was in previous decades. So it is not like the industry is completely ignoring the issue.

and before someone tells you they are no longer using Thimerosol, I was still required to ask if one was allergic to this ingredient on the consent forms for our flu injection clinics back in 2003.

Yes, still is AFAIK. Although there is (or, again, was as of a couple yeras ago) a non mercury adjuvant vaccine available for children and infants in the US (not, unfortunately, in Canada as best I could find out).

To quote from a NIH page because it is a good concise summary: "Today, all routinely recommended licensed pediatric vaccines currently being manufactured for the U.S. market are either thimerosal-free or contain markedly reduced amounts of thimerosal. Thimerosal, however, remains in some vaccines given to adults and adolescents, as well as some pediatric vaccines not on the Recommended Childhood and Adolescent Immunization Schedule. Thimerosal is still a common preservative found in vaccines used outside of the United States."

I can understand worry about adjuvants in human vaccines, at least if you get a buncha vaccines at once (which is probably not a great idea for other reasons either).

However... those who are concerned about mercury or aluminum or whatever in chick vaccines being a danger to those who later eat the eggs or meat -- DO THE MATH. Even if 100% of it is passed onto you later on (as if it all remained in the bird, in the meat only, and you ate all the meat) it is a number not distinguishable from zero.

Pat​

 

[midwife mama]

Quote:
I am making an informed decision for my chickens, based on all available information, statistics, risks, and anecdotes as well, so YES I am very much interested in hear both sides. However, for this particlar thread I asked to hear specifically from those who have chosen not to vaccinate in the past so that 1) I may understand reasons for not vaccinating that I had not considered and 2) so that I could learn about potential problems people encountered after not vaccinating.

I did not begin a general vaccination discussion thread because 1) a pro/com discussion could grow to be 500 pages long, and while that is plently fine, it was not my intention at this moment, 2) people tend to have very strong opionions and I did not want to open up a "no, i'm right, you're wrong' thread and 3) I am aware of the many reasons TO vaccinate, as this is the norm in this country, so it is the "other" side that I was hoping to learn more about.

I don't doubt that the disease is awful and horrible experience for chickens and their owners. I plan to make an informed decsion based on the risks of vaccinating versus the risks of not vaccinating, and yes there is a WHOLE lot of gray area on both sides. There is so much we don't know about the actual numbers (of diseased birds, risks to small flocks) and the risks of the vacccines themselves (for example, do we know how vaccines affect a chicken's organs?).

There is much to consider, and our indivdual stories help to fill in the blanks when the numbers and the "science" cannot cover all the issues. The decision making process is a highly personal one and we all come to it with our own biases and intuition. Thank you all for your responses. I wish there was a way to multi-quote to I could reply to you in one post instead of replying to each individually!