To worm or not to worm that is the question.

[casportpony]

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Quote: Yes.

 

[casportpony]

Since this was a "worm or not to worm" thread I thought I would share my newbie experience. (I've been in chickens for a whopping year and a half.)
I noticed worms in some droppings in my coop back in October. (I keep an immaculate coop, 12 chickens and it's cleaned daily.) I decided to let it go and not do anything and keep up me daily cleaning of course. I saw worms in poop for about 3 weeks then poof, no more worms. Clearly since I clean every day I'm always inspecting poop. So it did resolve with no intervention. I think if I kept a dirty coop and only cleaned once a week or less I might have had to do something because it would've spread to other chickens. But I guess you don't always have to hit the big guns. It was my own little experiment and I'm not opposed to medicating when needed.

A friend of mine does his own fecals and very rarely sees large roundworms in droppings, so just because you don't see worms, doesn't mean they don't have them. Then there are the smaller worms, like cecal and capillary, and you probably won't ever see those.

Would be best to gather up a bunch of fresh poop and have a vet do a fecal, or send the poop off to a lab. If the egg count is high enough, then you worm with the appropriate wormer.

Poop Tests - Veterinary Parasitology Laboratory​

 

[casportpony]

Quote: Necropsy picture of a friend's 3 month old chick that free ranged on 160 acres in Kansas:


Note that this chick was not passing any worms, though I think it's poop did look abnormal.

 

[Beekissed]

They ranged the whole 160 acres?????? Man, those are some kind of chickens!

Mine will only range about 3-4 acres distance from the coop.

Just because a person free ranges their birds doesn't mean their management practices are promoting healthy soils....they could be overstocking their range all the same and it winds up being much like a coop and run situation, even if they are out on range. Chickens don't instinctively know that the soils around their coop are highly over impacted with overstocking...they will just keep walking, eating and foraging right over that bad soil. Just because they have 160 acres, it doesn't mean they are using all of those acres....chickens usually won't range very far from their own coop. Another consideration is if the person is deworming with chemical wormers on a regular basis...which would just breed more resistant worms in their environment.

That bird was killed at 3 mo. for some reason...illness?

 

[casportpony]

They ranged the whole 160 acres?????? Man, those are some kind of chickens!    Mine will only range about 3-4 acres distance from the coop. 

Just because a person free ranges their birds doesn't mean their management practices are promoting healthy soils....they could be overstocking their range all the same and it winds up being much like a coop and run situation, even if they are out on range.  Chickens don't instinctively know that the soils around their coop are highly over impacted with overstocking...they will just keep walking, eating and foraging right over that bad soil.  Just because they have 160 acres, it doesn't mean they are using all of those acres....chickens usually won't range very far from their own coop.  Another consideration is if the person is deworming with chemical wormers on a regular basis...which would just breed more resistant worms in their environment. 

That bird was killed at 3 mo. for some reason...illness? 

It was a peachick, which was part of a smallish flock, and peafowl are known to range much further out than other fowl. Pretty sure it slept in trees at night, not in a coop, but not positive.

My point was that free range birds do get worms, and that they can have a deadly load but not have worms in their poop.

Bird died after one dose of Safeguard. Necropsy was done by vet and if I remember correctly, their were large roundworms in the abdominal cavity.

 

[Beekissed]

Every creature has a worm load of some kind, even us humans. Carrying an acceptable load of worms is the goal, not total elimination. At least, with those of us who favor natural living and life of the animal, it is. Parasite resistance is not the trait of not ever getting worms but the trait of carrying small loads of worms without it affecting health and production and that resistance is what most who favor natural animal care strive for.

No one stated that free range chickens don't carry worms....in fact, most people claim that free range birds are exposed to worm cycles more than those that are pen kept, though I have never seen evidence of that....seems like people with chickens in pens and coops tend to have more parasite problems than those keeping free ranged birds. I've killed hundreds of birds thus far from free ranged flocks and have yet to see the worm load you show in that picture...I've yet to see any worm load at all, except from one bird that arrived from a penned situation and was culled not long after her arrival. Could be your friend was breeding resistant worms rather than resistant birds.

The point that was being made was that free range birds have access to things in foraging efforts that could help them control their worm loads that pen kept birds would not have access to.

 

[casportpony]

Every creature has a worm load of some kind, even us humans.  Carrying an acceptable load of worms is the goal, not total elimination.  At least, with those of us who favor natural living and life of the animal, it is.   Parasite resistance is not the trait of not ever getting worms but the trait of carrying small loads of worms without it affecting health and production and that resistance is what most who favor natural animal care strive for.  

No one stated that free range chickens don't carry worms....in fact, most people claim that free range birds are exposed to worm cycles more than those that are pen kept, though I have never seen evidence of that....seems like people with chickens in pens and coops tend to have more parasite problems than those keeping free ranged birds.  I've killed hundreds of birds thus far from free ranged flocks and have yet to see the worm load you show in that picture...I've yet to see any worm load at all, except from one bird that arrived from a penned situation and was culled not long after her arrival.  Could be your friend was breeding resistant worms rather than resistant birds. 

The point that was being made was that free range birds have access to things in foraging efforts that could help them control their worm loads that pen kept birds would not have access to. 

My friend does routine fecals, and some have a fecal egg count of zero, some have a few, and some have a count that's high enough to warrant worming.

What the time frame to "breed resistant" worms? Days, weeks, months, or years?

 

[Beekissed]

I think that would be individual to the type and strain of worms one would be breeding. To find a young bird with a load that heavy would seem to indicate either soils overly infected with worm eggs, poor genetics or resistant worm populations. Or all three.

 

[casportpony]

I think that would be individual to the type and strain of worms one would be breeding. To find a young bird with a load that heavy would seem to indicate either soils overly infected with worm eggs, poor genetics or resistant worm populations. Or all three.

Since roundworms were found, how long to breed "Safeguard resistant roundworms"? Days, weeks, months, or years?

 

[Beekissed]

Since roundworms were found, how long to breed "Safeguard resistant roundworms"? Days, weeks, months, or years?

I don't think anybody knows that for sure....I've not found studies, just government articles stating that it is a problem with livestock that have been subjected to the same kind of dewormer over time. You might find such articles if you searched.