Tolbunt Polish

[sonew123]

I got nothing either I did trim off a large portion of my roos crest...he had ice pops hanging from his head from drinking and dipping! he was like a walking wind chime!

The Tolbunt girls are 5 months old now? Im expecting it to be a long winter of waiting!

The rest of the flocks are actually laying nicely

 

[Sportsterjeep]

Quote:
I'm sorry, but, what?


Tolbunt is Gold Laced with mottling. The large amounts of white is NOT a part of the proposed standard for Tolbunts, but merely a common trait pictured in people's flocks, and commonly liked. It is not the same combination of genes, not the same pattern.

I've posted this photo before, don't know how someone would mistake this for Mille Fleur. Also, it's been discussed a lot the issue of excess white.

People eyeing for a better Tolbunt are eyeing to get rid of it, as we're looking for a balanced mottling like any other mottled/spangled bird.





Just thought I'd clear that up.

Tolbunt is not Gold Laced, it is mahogany at base, followed by a black blob, and then a white blob at the tip. Regardless of how many tolbunts are gold laced due to outcrossing to this variety, the tolbunt is not supposed to be laced. Many of the tolbunts in the USA, mine included, are throwing a laced instead of a mottled feather pattern. This is something that we need to work on and get them back to a mottled pattern.
In the same sense, its also not a mille fleur pattern either. I have mille fleur d'uccles and the base mahogany isn't right for tolbunts. Mille fleur also calls for chevron patterning at the white tip, in a V form. This chevron is not required in the tolbunt pattern, which only calls for a double mottling effect.
I have heard people wanting to change the proposed standard to a laced pattern white tipped bird and I disagree with this. We don't just decide to change the standard of the bird because we, collectively, as breeders screwed up since bringing this bird into the US. Instead, we need to work with what we have and get it back to the standard.

 

[OSUman]

Quote:
I'm sorry, but, what?


Tolbunt is Gold Laced with mottling. The large amounts of white is NOT a part of the proposed standard for Tolbunts, but merely a common trait pictured in people's flocks, and commonly liked. It is not the same combination of genes, not the same pattern.

I've posted this photo before, don't know how someone would mistake this for Mille Fleur. Also, it's been discussed a lot the issue of excess white.

People eyeing for a better Tolbunt are eyeing to get rid of it, as we're looking for a balanced mottling like any other mottled/spangled bird.





Just thought I'd clear that up.

Tolbunt is not Gold Laced, it is mahogany at base, followed by a black blob, and then a white blob at the tip. Regardless of how many tolbunts are gold laced due to outcrossing to this variety, the tolbunt is not supposed to be laced. Many of the tolbunts in the USA, mine included, are throwing a laced instead of a mottled feather pattern. This is something that we need to work on and get them back to a mottled pattern.
In the same sense, its also not a mille fleur pattern either. I have mille fleur d'uccles and the base mahogany isn't right for tolbunts. Mille fleur also calls for chevron patterning at the white tip, in a V form. This chevron is not required in the tolbunt pattern, which only calls for a double mottling effect.
I have heard people wanting to change the proposed standard to a laced pattern white tipped bird and I disagree with this. We don't just decide to change the standard of the bird because we, collectively, as breeders screwed up since bringing this bird into the US. Instead, we need to work with what we have and get it back to the standard.

Tolbunt is Gold laced with mottling what you had described is mille fluer, but most birds dont look like either due to poor breeding. Some like the one Illia posted are looking good.

 

[Sportsterjeep]

No, it is not gold laced. Go read the written proposed standard. Here is the excerpt from it.

Plumage: each feather should be 50% light reddish brown, 25% black, and 25% white. Colors on feather should begin as grey-brown near the skin, surface color beginning as light reddish brown, going to a black blob, then a white blob at the end of the feather.

ETA: To add again, just because we screwed up and outcrossed to a laced bird, resulting in laced tolbunts, does not make it right. We need to work on getting it back to what it should be.

 

[OSUman]

Quote:
Wow I hadnt seen the standard before, I guess there must be two different kinds of Tollbunt then because the one that is described on the Polish site on the standard sounds alot like mille fluer whereas the one I have seen alot of people working towards is the Laced Mottled one such as this coloring. Theres also an article about it here http://www.chickencolours.com/TollbuntWyanEng.pdf same color but in wyandottes.

PS this is not my photo it is from http://chickencolours.com

 

[sonew123]

Quote:
Wow I hadnt seen the standard before, I guess there must be two different kinds of Tollbunt then because the one that is described on the Polish site on the standard sounds alot like mille fluer whereas the one I have seen alot of people working towards is the Laced Mottled one such as this coloring. Theres also an article about it here http://www.chickencolours.com/TollbuntWyanEng.pdf same color but in wyandottes.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/jalden2/Untitled-2.jpg
PS this is not my photo it is from http://chickencolours.com

Holy stunning Batman!!!!!!

 

[Sportsterjeep]

Many breeders have used gold laced polish as an outcross because of it being the closest and easiest thing to use. We've also done this. The problem is that the more that you outcross to a laced variety, the more you "set" the lacing into the offspring. It is now very hard to find a good mottled tolbunt that doesn't show lacing. It's something that all of us breeding them need to work on.

 

[Sportsterjeep]

Quote:
Wow I hadnt seen the standard before, I guess there must be two different kinds of Tollbunt then because the one that is described on the Polish site on the standard sounds alot like mille fluer whereas the one I have seen alot of people working towards is the Laced Mottled one such as this coloring. Theres also an article about it here http://www.chickencolours.com/TollbuntWyanEng.pdf same color but in wyandottes.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/jalden2/Untitled-2.jpg
PS this is not my photo it is from http://chickencolours.com

Ok, had to go read the text that came with that photo. As a genteticist, I believe Sigrid is one of the best. I have read her posts on other forums, however she does not post here. Read through what she wrote with that and at the bottom she talks about how she photo shops onto the photos to illustrate how she wants something to look, taking her hours instead of decades of breeding. Not sure if this is one of her photoshopped pics or not because she doesn't say which ones she altered to show what she was trying to explain.
I will say that in her tolbunt description there, that she uses the term white tipped gold laced. I may have to track her down and ask her about it. I'll also add that our own proposed standard allows for a laced pattern, but does not encourage it.
Quite honestly I find that most people get into these, and then give up because they are such a difficult bird to grow out. It makes it very frustrating when you can only get a small percentage of the eggs hatched and grown to adulthood. I am finding that as the breeders get a little older, almost 2 years now, that the resulting chicks are doing much better.

 

[OSUman]

Quote:
Wow I hadnt seen the standard before, I guess there must be two different kinds of Tollbunt then because the one that is described on the Polish site on the standard sounds alot like mille fluer whereas the one I have seen alot of people working towards is the Laced Mottled one such as this coloring. Theres also an article about it here http://www.chickencolours.com/TollbuntWyanEng.pdf same color but in wyandottes.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/jalden2/Untitled-2.jpg
PS this is not my photo it is from http://chickencolours.com

Ok, had to go read the text that came with that photo. As a genteticist, I believe Sigrid is one of the best. I have read her posts on other forums, however she does not post here. Read through what she wrote with that and at the bottom she talks about how she photo shops onto the photos to illustrate how she wants something to look, taking her hours instead of decades of breeding. Not sure if this is one of her photoshopped pics or not because she doesn't say which ones she altered to show what she was trying to explain.
I will say that in her tolbunt description there, that she uses the term white tipped gold laced. I may have to track her down and ask her about it. I'll also add that our own proposed standard allows for a laced pattern, but does not encourage it.
Quite honestly I find that most people get into these, and then give up because they are such a difficult bird to grow out. It makes it very frustrating when you can only get a small percentage of the eggs hatched and grown to adulthood. I am finding that as the breeders get a little older, almost 2 years now, that the resulting chicks are doing much better.

That one is photoshoped

 

[poultryfan73]

Has anyone gotten Tolbunt Polishes from Greenfire farms? I am considering getting some of them for a christmas present. Any opinions are greatly appreciated.