Too many treats?

[EggSighted4Life]

Maybe I should re word my post to .................
What is the lifespan of a free range chicken vs the lifespan of a factory fed chicken? [not counting culling for 'stewers']

The life span of ALL animals is increased slightly when in captivity as compared to in nature.. as stated.. predation.. but also parasites, nutrition, and ambient temperature.. all tax the immune system IF out of whack.. Natural food sources depend on the weather and vary by season.. which also impacts breeding AND production of animals.. USUALLY decreasing both during the more sparse nutrition that is MANY places during winter.. (My bug and plant populations both change throughout the seasons.. but my FEED stays the same).. The animals adjust THEIR intake according to their energy/nutrient need.. when things are consistent.. NONE of my birds PREFER lower protein feeds.. THIS is WHY gradual transition is recommended for pet food. Mix 25/75 to start, then 50/50, next 75/25 eventually transition is complete.. .. to adjust the taste buds AND expectations of the creature of habit and NOT because it MIGHT throw of digestion as many suggest despite being ALMOST the exact same ingredients. Obviously gradual transition may be less key if the feed being offered is higher in something excitable like fat, etc.. but when less desirable gradual helps a LOT!

MOST of us keep animals in better condition than those that are "wild".. ever seen a coyote with mange.. or deer with ticks.. nature is brutal, period! We also keep them BETTER than factory conditions.. which is NOT the same as using a formulated ration or what you are calling "factory fed".. those factory feeds ARE coming from FARMED plants.. they are technically being fed a factory formulated ration according to the avian nutrition and health experts.. "layer" feed.. is the factory MINIMUM for keeping a light bodied layer like Leghorn in laying condition.

To extend longevity.. a domestic chicken offered a formulated ration WILL live longer than a bird trying to live in free range inadequate conditions.. TRUE free range ONLY chickens.. NEED about an acre PER head according to my research.. and will never liver longer. We ALL want to keep chickens in "more natural" conditions.. but chickens as we know them today are NOT natural. They were selectively bred to put out a maximum number of eggs..

Nutrition and condition CAN effect egg production.. BUT unless SERIOUSLY out of whack.. most keepers will never notice the 10% or so reduction. Genetics plays huge key in everything production, longevity, even nutritional requirements!

Final statement.. it's ALWAYS genetics which *may* be (is) influenced by environmental conditions.. we do our best, according to our CURRENT understanding.. along with OUR goals.

Those of us (IN the know) who DO "free range" or "pasture raise" our DOMESTIC birds.. do so in ADDITION to feeding an age/gender/species APPROPRIATE formulated ration.. not instead of. And THAT my chicken friend is HOW you achieve maximum life span.. Which is hugely key to some of us who have invested YEARS and generations of collection and selective breeding not to mention cost of purchase, housing etc.. Giving my birds anything less then the absolute best is doing MYSELF a disservice..

I prefer a flock raiser.. with oyster free choice on the side ALONG with pasture ranging.. it DOES not increase production OR life span.. again, I contend THAT is genetic.

I have NOT lost a bird on lock up using a formulated ration ever.. I have lost several birds free ranging to aerial predators. I accept the risk and the cost most of the time but go on lock up during times of heavy predator load like during early spring/late fall hawk migration. During these times.. I like to sprout or fodder barley, wheat, etc.. as enrichment and a treat but NOT as a nutrition supplement.. idle minds are the Devil's playground and bored chickens are Stew Pidasso's.. reducing crowding and stress certainly impact hormones and stress levels.. increased stress levels ALWAYS decrease longevity. Regardless of which feed or ranging routine you use.. having adequate space, enrichment, and nutrients ALONG with proper husbandry (fresh air, not ammonia smelling) will ALWAYS give the "best" results.

Hope this is helpful, sorry if it rambles on!

 

[linguini]

Is the layer feed the same brand as the 18% feed, or are the ingredients similar? Just asking to see if it's a matter of taste, or the crumble v pellet shape/size, or what.

For now I'd switch back to the 18% with calcium on the side, since you know they were willing to eat the feed. Don't mix in the calcium, let them take what they need and IF it turns out they're having soft shells, troubleshoot from there.

Thanks! It's the same brand - Nutrena Crumbles. I'll try the 18% with oyster shell on the side. They used to consume a 50lb bag in 3 weeks. Now they have barely finished one bag in 2 months! I started giving them fermented feed (layer feed), but only once a day. The rate of consumption is about 1/3 of what it used to be, that's an improvement. Will go back to the 18% after we finish this bag!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Thanks! It's the same brand - Nutrena Crumbles. I'll try the 18% with oyster shell on the side. They used to consume a 50lb bag in 3 weeks. Now they have barely finished one bag in 2 months! I started giving them fermented feed (layer feed), but only once a day. The rate of consumption is about 1/3 of what it used to be, that's an improvement. Will go back to the 18% after we finish this bag!

I fed only fermented for 2 years for a flock of 82+ birds.. it may reduce waste for some flocks.. it's great enrichment but NOT the magic folks like to hype..

in fact if over fermented will reduce consumption simply because they don't like it! NEVER did any of the claims say 60% reduction in feed consumption.. so there MAY be more going on here than meets the eye.. sound like a good cause for looking deeper into previous free loaders, current ph, maybe even both, etc.. WHY such a huge change?? Those numbers aren't lining up with what *should* be reality! I'm not accusing you of anything.. I'm detail oriented about SOME things.. and poultry feed consumption/nutrition happens to be one I'm a little obsessive about.. both learning and sharing.. IF you are having an issue, I just wanna help you find it.. and if you aren't.. who know what realization will be discovered?!

Check out the study I linked below for lots of fantastic information regarding FF.. not hear say of folks who won't test their ph change or other things.

After all my experience and research.. I find a wet mash equal to or better than FF.. and even that is a bonus.. formulated rations should meet the need of the species and age stated on packaging according to law in the US. We ALL want to save a little money especially if we can increase our health at the same time.. FF is NOT all that and best used as enrichment or a treat... If it WAS all that.. I guarantee.. big chicken would have made the switch.

Nature's Best.. cool name.. a feel good, low quality, cheap brand.. in my OPINION, like Dumor.

At my local TSC I pay 1 c more per # for Purina flock raiser than those brands equivalent formulation... But consider having a look at the ingredient and other nutrients.. amino acids, protein, etc.. compared to other national brands.. While I spent hours on end at different stores reading labels.. there's a comparison thread that gathered it to one location though I'm NOT sure if it includes ingredients or just guaranteed analysis.. it may be worth a peek before your next bag purchase..

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/➡-feed-comparison-spreadsheet.1275920/#post-20524932

 

[Chickassan]

Throw a couple raisins in it, you be surprised how easy chickens can be food fooled....and like it.

Thank you! I will try that, though I am skeptical that they will be fooled. (I tried that with a sick bird a couple of months ago.)

 

[linguini]

I fed only fermented for 2 years for a flock of 82+ birds.. it may reduce waste for some flocks.. it's great enrichment but NOT the magic folks like to hype..

in fact if over fermented will reduce consumption simply because they don't like it! NEVER did any of the claims say 60% reduction in feed consumption.. so there MAY be more going on here than meets the eye.. sound like a good cause for looking deeper into previous free loaders, current ph, maybe even both, etc.. WHY such a huge change?? Those numbers aren't lining up with what *should* be reality! I'm not accusing you of anything.. I'm detail oriented about SOME things.. and poultry feed consumption/nutrition happens to be one I'm a little obsessive about.. both learning and sharing.. IF you are having an issue, I just wanna help you find it.. and if you aren't.. who know what realization will be discovered?!

Check out the study I linked below for lots of fantastic information regarding FF.. not hear say of folks who won't test their ph change or other things.

After all my experience and research.. I find a wet mash equal to or better than FF.. and even that is a bonus.. formulated rations should meet the need of the species and age stated on packaging according to law in the US. We ALL want to save a little money especially if we can increase our health at the same time.. FF is NOT all that and best used as enrichment or a treat... If it WAS all that.. I guarantee.. big chicken would have made the switch.

Nature's Best.. cool name.. a feel good, low quality, cheap brand.. in my OPINION, like Dumor.

At my local TSC I pay 1 c more per # for Purina flock raiser than those brands equivalent formulation... But consider having a look at the ingredient and other nutrients.. amino acids, protein, etc.. compared to other national brands.. While I spent hours on end at different stores reading labels.. there's a comparison thread that gathered it to one location though I'm NOT sure if it includes ingredients or just guaranteed analysis.. it may be worth a peek before your next bag purchase..

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/➡-feed-comparison-spreadsheet.1275920/#post-20524932

Thanks for the info!! So great to meet obsessed detailed oriented minds (am a data scientist, data/number obsessed, too!)

Wet feed is a lot easier to do than FF, and it also seems easier for the chooks to peck. I had to deal with a lot of frozen unfinished FF from last night. (I followed some instructions to add more water to the FF. I am experimenting all different ways!) I will also try giving them in the morning.

 

[NatJ]

Wet feed is a lot easier to do than FF, and it also seems easier for the chooks to peck. I had to deal with a lot of frozen unfinished FF from last night. (I followed some instructions to add more water to the FF. I am experimenting all different ways!)

You could bring the feed somewhere above freezing during the night (when the chickens are sleeping anyway), and put it back out in the morning. Just bringing it into the house might be easiest.

 

[Sycamore Hill Chicks]

Hi all,

I have 10 hens that are 9 1/2 months old. In the last few weeks, 4-5 of them have started going through some sort of premature molt. They do have feathers growing back in, and the basically seem FINE - active, eating etc., but there are two things that concern me. 1) 3 of them have pale comb 2) Four of them seem quite thin (protruding breast bone). What I've also noticed lately is that, though they eagerly gobble any treats I give them, they do not seem very interested in their regular feed. They do eat it, but don't seem to be eating as much as I think they should. I am wondering if the proportion of treats to feed is to high and, if so, have I inadvertently triggered an early molt by them eating the wrong food. I should add that the other 5-6 of my chickens appear perfectly healthy and perfect weight. The treats I give them EVERY day 1) black oil sunflower seeds - at least 1 cup/day 2) nutri-berries - about 1 per bird/day 3) some greens - kale, cabbage etc. 4) cantaloupe seeds - I eat cantaloupe every morning and give them what I'd normally throw out. They also sometimes get (not every day) sprouted lentils and yogurt. (And I'm now sprouting wheat and mung beans for them.) When they were first losing feathers, I suspected possible mites (partly because of their age, and partly because of a couple had pool stuck to vent feathers) and treated for that. There is no sign of mites now. Also, we are not lighting their coop artificially and only one hen is laying eggs right now. I love these girls dearly.

Thanks for any input,

Lee

Generally no more than 1 tsbp. per chicken or 10 % is the rule of thumb for treats. Too much can lead to health issues, especially if your chickens are not very active

 

[Cindy in PA]

I fed only fermented for 2 years for a flock of 82+ birds.. it may reduce waste for some flocks.. it's great enrichment but NOT the magic folks like to hype..

in fact if over fermented will reduce consumption simply because they don't like it! NEVER did any of the claims say 60% reduction in feed consumption.. so there MAY be more going on here than meets the eye.. sound like a good cause for looking deeper into previous free loaders, current ph, maybe even both, etc.. WHY such a huge change?? Those numbers aren't lining up with what *should* be reality! I'm not accusing you of anything.. I'm detail oriented about SOME things.. and poultry feed consumption/nutrition happens to be one I'm a little obsessive about.. both learning and sharing.. IF you are having an issue, I just wanna help you find it.. and if you aren't.. who know what realization will be discovered?!

Check out the study I linked below for lots of fantastic information regarding FF.. not hear say of folks who won't test their ph change or other things.

After all my experience and research.. I find a wet mash equal to or better than FF.. and even that is a bonus.. formulated rations should meet the need of the species and age stated on packaging according to law in the US. We ALL want to save a little money especially if we can increase our health at the same time.. FF is NOT all that and best used as enrichment or a treat... If it WAS all that.. I guarantee.. big chicken would have made the switch.

Nature's Best.. cool name.. a feel good, low quality, cheap brand.. in my OPINION, like Dumor.

At my local TSC I pay 1 c more per # for Purina flock raiser than those brands equivalent formulation... But consider having a look at the ingredient and other nutrients.. amino acids, protein, etc.. compared to other national brands.. While I spent hours on end at different stores reading labels.. there's a comparison thread that gathered it to one location though I'm NOT sure if it includes ingredients or just guaranteed analysis.. it may be worth a peek before your next bag purchase..

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/➡-feed-comparison-spreadsheet.1275920/#post-20524932

Natures Best is a great organic feed out of PA. It's been around for two decades & the feed company has been around much longer. They were one of the first manufacturing organic feed & not one of the Johnny come lately big ag companies who jumped on the bandwagon, fyi.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Natures Best is a great organic feed out of PA. It's been around for two decades & the feed company has been around much longer. They were one of the first manufacturing organic feed & not one of the Johnny come lately big ag companies who jumped on the bandwagon, fyi.

Thanks for the feedback!

My opinion is not based on how long they've been around and nor do I think new comers on ANY scene are Johnny come lately per say. I TRY not to be biased based on age.

Though I DO get the ideal that longevity SHOULD equal honesty and reliability.. to many sell outs and not much really based behind the name on the label.. so I read ingredients and guaranteed analysis and pick the one that makes the most sense for ME at the time. Since mine is just an opinion.. it's open to change.. and I will look into what you are saying and keep an open mind next time I go to the feed store and before I post anything else, less than nice about their product!