Toulouse or Buff geese choice?

[PhantomSlayer]

I've learned I pretty much have no say in things regarding my moms plans to get our first chicken flock this spring. I'm pretty much just trying to decrease issues "we" (Me) will have. And then my mother decides bombshell she wants geese for protection against smaller snake and weasles and alarms for bigger threats. Including people I guess. I can just imagine geese attacking my father or brothers when they step out of their trucks.

As I said I am pretty much just trying to decrease issues I will face. Such as finding birds that will survive our Michigan climate and not try to kill me who will be their daily caretaker. And my moms narrowed her wants down to two different breeds. But she only wants a pair of one breed. The american buff or Toulouse.

While I've done my research about their purposes which both seem to stem with meat with the toulouse being decent for eggs. Both seem more docile than something such as the african geese which my mom doesn't want because of the knob on their head I guess thats prone to frostbite based on what she said. .

From what I am seeing theres not much about the toulouse's guardian abilities.

So can anyone tell me anything that I can discuss with her to lead her toward the breed that can survive cold winter. Honestly I'm not expecting the geese to do much guarding of chickens but stories to entertain her and give her thoughts toward the breeds she wants to decide would be very much appreciated. Whether it be about their care, personalitys, any guardian things if you got lucky, issues with the geese and chickens etc. Just anything that comes to mind will be much appreciated.

To clarify we will be free ranging the chickens and geese all during the day and get them penned up in a secured covered run during night. I'm hoping to get the chickens trained to come "home" (coop/run) for the night with a bell. I dunno if thatll work for the geese though. I never thought she would want geese. I mean we talked about turkeys and guineas but that was going to be a future addition after the chicken flock was secured.


Last but not least as I say I have no say so telling my mom the geese wont do what she wants will not work with her lol.

 

[Goosebaby]

There is no such thing as guard geese and they won’t do anything to protect the chickens from snakes, weasels, skunks, raccoons, foxes, or anything else.
They can deter hawks because of their size, but that is all.
They have no instinct or inclination to defend anything other than their eggs, goslings, and mates, nothing more. Their natural defense mechanism against all foes is to fly away if they can because truthfully they can’t really put up much of a fight.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...d-goose-and-why-you-should-not-get-one.77508/

On the other hand geese can get violent towards smaller birds of different species, there are plenty of accounts of people here who’ve had their roosters, hens, and ducks nearly killed or killed by their geese.

Chinese and African geese are better at alerting to something in your yard, person or whatever, than Toulouse or buffs. My Toulouse and Buff’s instinct when seeing a stranger or predator is to not draw attention to themselves by making noise and to scurry our of sight so I wouldn’t suggest them as good candidates for alarm geese, however all geese are individuals so I can’t say that there aren’t buffs and Toulouse who wouldn’t make good alarm geese.

Geese can be wonderful additions to the flock if situated in their own enclosure at night or one large enough that ducks and chickens have plenty of room to keep away, geese have wonderful personalities and you won’t see bigger eggs unless you get something more exotic.
I personally love geese, I have 11, they’re all individuals and they put a smile on my face every day. However geese are large enough to make life difficult, and if you don’t interact with them a lot they can decide that you aren’t a member of their clique and that you are a rival trying to steal their mate and they will make your life very difficult in breeding season. That isn’t that big of a deal if you’ve learned to expect it and know how to deal with it, but it isn’t easy if you’re a first time goose owner.

 

[Goosebaby]

Metzer Hatchery had a recent post about guard geese, I found it fascinating that while they didn’t refute the myth of guard geese “because it would decrease sales” they did however explain that they will not protect other birds. Their “guard” geese are alarm geese.


Here is Metzer’s take on guard geese:

https://www.metzerfarms.com/blog/guard-geese.html
“
Here are some interesting observations we have found regarding Guard Geese in general:

• Do not expect geese to fight off a predator to protect smaller birds. Some may sacrifice themselves to protect their mate but their greatest attribute is their alarm system - not their actual physical intimidation.

• Their defensiveness is usually seasonal. Geese may be much more aggressive during the spring when females are sitting on eggs and baby goslings need to be defended. A bird may seem warmhearted during the fall but a no-nonsense protector in the spring.

• White Chinese, Brown Chinese, Africans, and Super Africans are our recommendations for Guard Geese as they are naturally noisier. They do not seem to be more aggressive than other breeds, just more vocal.

• Oftentimes the fewer geese you have in a pen, the more protective they are of that pen. If you only have one pair in a backyard, they can easily convince themselves it is their backyard. But if you have ten, then who is responsible for that backyard? Mary? Ethel? Fred? George?

• In terms of geese in general, there seems to be quite a bit of variability within each breed in terms of aggressiveness. One person might say their Buff are gentle giants and their White Chinese geese are very aggressive. The next person could say just the opposite. Therefore, theoretically, any goose can be looked at as a guard goose - it just depends on perspective.

Just some added thoughts on geese to think about . . .”

 

[Finnie]

I'm hoping to get the chickens trained to come "home" (coop/run) for the night with a bell.

That won’t be necessary. Are you getting adult chickens or raising chicks? Chicks will be imprinted on the coop they are raised in and will naturally return to it at dusk. If you buy adult hens, keep them cooped up for the first couple of weeks and then they will return to it at dusk as well.

You can train them to come into the run during the day with treats and either a bell or a special call. That can make it easier to catch them during the day if they are free ranging and you need to lock them up for some reason.

Last but not least as I say I have no say so telling my mom the geese wont do what she wants will not work with her lol.

Just because they won’t be much of an alarm system isn’t any reason not to get a pair. I think she should get whatever kind strikes her fancy.

I only have Chinese geese, so I don’t know anything about Toulouse or Buffs. Was kind of hoping to read about them if I clicked on this thread.

I like my Chinese for their beautiful swanlike appearance, but they are extremely loud and it’s pretty annoying. Mostly they are crying wolf so I’ve learned to ignore their noise. But occasionally there is a more desperate tone which gets my attention and I look to see what’s bothering them. Yesterday it was a Fox!!

It was meandering outside their electric fence and I wonder if their loud ruckus is what kept it from jumping in. It left when it saw me coming with my dog. (The dog never saw the fox but I do think she sniffed it’s trail for a bit.)

I have had hawks kill chickens that were inside the electric fence with the geese. But I have seen many more hawks leave without attacking so who knows whether it was because of the geese or some other reason. The same thing happens in my other chicken area that does not contain any geese or turkeys. But now that I think about it, the percentages of hawk attacks are larger for the non-geese areas.

 

[PhantomSlayer]

We'll be getting chicks. Most likely from Cackle Hatchery. My mom keeps changing her mind on where to get them from because of prices. And while yes I know they should return to their coop by dusk. I just think it'll be good to have them trained to come to the sound of the bell for the days we have to leave for more than a couple hours or bad weather so most can put them away easier.

My mom has a disease where it causes something similiar to like arthritis in her back and its caused bone spurs so I don't see her being able to herd chickens in on the hill she chose for their coop. So getting them trained to an object that stays the same is better than getting them trained to a word or call so it can make it easier if I'm unable to call them in because of something like me being gone and visiting a friend or something. I'm just trying to make things easier incase of some possibilities.

Its my instinct to do all the research I can on a creature someone around me is getting or if I want the animal. Past two years I've been trying and failing to get gerbils despite the fact I can pretty much write a ten-fifteen page essay on them and their care lol. I can't afford it sadly.. When my mom said were getting chickens and asked me to suggest some breeds to her I fell in love with Australorps and I insisted that since I'll be the one taking care of their care because she won't then I deserve to have some of a breed I really want. It was helpful that the Australorps pretty much can sell themselves with their egg production and pretty looks lol.

Anyways yeah. I really need know more about toulouse and buffs to decrease issues. As I said I don't expect them to end up being much of a guardian. It's my mom who wants them for "Guardians" and shes set on her mind believing they'll provide some degree of protection. If I say "Alot of people said they wont protect the flock" Shell still say she wants them. and probably believe they will protect the flock. She only wants a single pair though.

She did mention however if she can't get geese shell get guineas but I think she meant that as a way since most of the geese are out of stock on cackle right now. Who knows though. I never know what shes thinking...

 

[Goosebaby]

I would suggest Buffs, they’re a bit calmer than my Toulouse.
That doesn’t mean you won’t end up with a feisty one as all geese are individuals, but Buffs seem a bit more mellow generally. They’re a little smaller too.

For reference I have 4 French Toulouse, 1 Buff and 1 Roman, all from Metzer. The rest of my geese are Buff, Toulouse, and Roman mixes. I previously had two more Buffs from McMurray and More French Toulouse from Metzer who passed away.

 

[camplondon2]

There is no such thing as guard geese and they won’t do anything to protect the chickens from snakes, weasels, skunks, raccoons, foxes, or anything else.
They can deter hawks because of their size, but that is all.
They have no instinct or inclination to defend anything other than their eggs, goslings, and mates, nothing more. Their natural defense mechanism against all foes is to fly away if they can because truthfully they can’t really put up much of a fight.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...d-goose-and-why-you-should-not-get-one.77508/

On the other hand geese can get violent towards smaller birds of different species, there are plenty of accounts of people here who’ve had their roosters, hens, and ducks nearly killed or killed by their geese.

Chinese and African geese are better at alerting to something in your yard, person or whatever, than Toulouse or buffs. My Toulouse and Buff’s instinct when seeing a stranger or predator is to not draw attention to themselves by making noise and to scurry our of sight so I wouldn’t suggest them as good candidates for alarm geese, however all geese are individuals so I can’t say that there aren’t buffs and Toulouse who wouldn’t make good alarm geese.

Geese can be wonderful additions to the flock if situated in their own enclosure at night or one large enough that ducks and chickens have plenty of room to keep away, geese have wonderful personalities and you won’t see bigger eggs unless you get something more exotic.
I personally love geese, I have 11, they’re all individuals and they put a smile on my face every day. However geese are large enough to make life difficult, and if you don’t interact with them a lot they can decide that you aren’t a member of their clique and that you are a rival trying to steal their mate and they will make your life very difficult in breeding season. That isn’t that big of a deal if you’ve learned to expect it and know how to deal with it, but it isn’t easy if you’re a first time goose owner.

Pointers for first time goose owner?

 

[Goosebaby]

Pointers for first time goose owner?

Waterfowl need more vitamins than chicks, especially B vitamins like niacin. Chick start is usually formulated for chicks so it doesn’t have enough vitamins for goslings and health issues like leg problems, neurological problems, and a weak immune system will develop.
Medicated feed actually isn’t toxic to geese, that was a myth that’s still gets spread around but it isn’t true. I used to believe it myself once. It likely started from people mistaking symptoms of vitamin deficiency with poisoning because the majority of medicated start is formulated for chicks just doesn’t have enough nutrients for geese or ducks. Goslings should be on a flock raiser type feed.

As they get older an all flock, multi flock, or water fowl feed is needed, for simplicity heavy breeds like my Toulouse can actually be fed flock raiser year round, smaller breeds like Buffs can too, but you may need to monitor their weight more.
Access to grazing is important not just for nutrition but for exercise. A baby pool for bathing is also needed if you don’t have a pond, large bodies of water aren’t necessary but even if you do have a pond a small pool is nice because it can be cleaned.

During laying season females will need crushed eggshells or oyster shells for extra calcium. Personally I don’t recommend feeding layer feed if you have ganders because they don’t need it and eating excess calcium long term isn’t healthy if their bodies aren’t putting it to use “laying.” The same goes for females that aren’t laying.

Keeping goslings in a small baby pool while they’re little will help keep down on mess which can do a lot for your sanity. At first they aren’t very messy but as each week passes they’ll need their space cleaned up more and more often. Geese aren’t nearly as messy as ducks in my expierience though.

Geese do well with routines and can learn things fairly easily, they’ll learn their names, various words, and can even learn simple commands. They can be trained to go to their shed or cage in the evening, they usually have to actually be escorted inside though.

They’ll bond most with whoever is around them most, however if you’re just bringing them food every day and nothing more ganders can sometimes treat that person as a rival during breeding season which makes life a bit more difficult depending on the gander.

Geese like to tinker and are very inquisitive, they’ll mess with things on their own but if they see you fiddling with something they’re going to want in on the fun, so thats something to keep in mind if it’s something hazardous or just something you don’t want destroyed.
Things with zinc or lead should never be left anywhere they can get to, same with small metal objects like bolts, coins, wire, and so on.

Geese will sometimes develop a habit of chewing up trees and plants, it’s best just to keep them away if they start with fencing or other barriers, sometimes it can help if you tell them not to by touching the plant in question and immediately shaking your hands and face in the typical “YUK” expression, geese actually do this themselves and it communicates to the other geese that something tastes bad. This doesn’t always work, but sometimes it does.

Geese are also very individualistic, an example of this is that they don’t always like the same foods, some like apples whereas others won’t for example. Sometimes it can take awhile to get them to try something new, if they see someone else eating something they’re more willing to want to try it themselves.

Some things my geese will eat are:
Lettuce, romain lettuce, cabbage, broccoli, kale, spinach, chard, apples, pears, peaches, plums, cherries, pumpkin, pumpkin seeds, melons, oranges, papaya, cucumbers, carrots, peas, corn, blueberries, blackberries, sunflower seeds, tomatoes.

A little while back there was a thing going around that spinach, kale, chard, tomatoes and citrus are bad for geese for various reasons, only if you’re feeding them spinach and nothing more, or any of the others and nothing more would health problems arise, but that’s true for anything and everyone. A little here and there every day isn’t going to be a problem and the health benefits of those are pretty great.


A big thing to know is that if you encounter a health problem and you need to get your goose to a vet, that’s easier said than done, you may want to spend some time searching for an exotics vet that sees poultry, not even vets that see birds will see “poultry” and it’s no guarantee even then that they might have any expierience with geese or know anything about them. If you can find an old farm vet that’s still around you are in luck! There aren’t a lot of them left.

Be wary of advise you find on the internet or at feed stores. Feed store employees are just there to get you to buy something and more often than not they don’t know what they’re talking about.
Information on the internet is sketchy, some people know what they’re talking about, others are liars pretending to be something they aren’t, and far to many repeat misinformation without even realizing it. It can be really difficult telling the dirfference between all of them.
To make things worse, there isn’t a lot of legitimate information about caring for geese, even less about health and medical information for geese, it can be really hard finding reputable sources and factual information, so take everything with a grain of salt, question everything, do your own research, and don’t necesarily trust what other people say, not even me, sometimes we repeat something that’s wrong without ever realizing it.
The best advice comes from those who’ve been raising a lot of geese for the longest time.

 

[Goosebaby]

Metzer has a detailed page about nutritional requirements for geese https://www.metzerfarms.com/nutritional-requirements.html

Most of my birds came from Metzer but their needs vary a little differently than Metzer’s guide. I have mostly Toulouse and Toulouse mixes with a Buff and Classic Roman, so my flock ranges between large and medium geese with two small geese.
Larger birds have higher nutritional requirements than smaller breeds, and even within a single breed you can have individuals that have slightly different needs.

From what I’ve found with my birds is that in general though goslings need around 22% protein in their feed.
Adult birds that aren’t laying or molting can be taken down to a 17% feed.
Birds that are laying need more protein and calcium, 20% feed with added free choice oyster shell.
Birds that are molting have a high protein need, 20% with added calcium supplements given free choice, added protein and calcium rich treats like soldier fly larva or even cat food.
In sudden cold snaps or frigid winters birds require more protein, on the coldest nights I’ve occasionally given my birds 30% game bird start.
If you have a sick or severely underweight bird 30% feed is preferred to help get them healthy again.
Generally 30% protein is unhealthy, especially long term, it should only be given if needed.

The easiest way thing is just to feed them a 20% all flock, multiflock, or a flock raiser at every stage, year round with added eggshell when needed. They can run the risk of putting on to much weight if they’re not running around a lot, but that’s more common in smaller breed birds, buffs tend to be a medium to small breed.

 

[Goosebaby]

Some owners have encountered angel wing feeding high protein feed “20% to 22%” to goslings.
Currently there isn’t a consensus to the actual causes for this, some attribute it to genetics, others to too much carbs and protein.

From my experience it’s both, you can have some goslings get it, and yet their siblings won’t. From what I’ve seen it’s because some individuals are just metabolizing the feed differently.

What angel wing actually is is when the gosling is starting to grow it’s feathers in, the quills on their wrists can become to heavy to hold in the proper position from the weight of blood inside the shaft and the wrist twists and needs to be corrected by tying the wing into the correct position for around 3 day.

If angel wing does appear it’s easily corrected by wrapping when caught early, it can be done at home without a vet, if left uncorected it’s permanent.