Tragedy related to nutrition?

[sharol]

Quote:

What an image.

 

[twentynine]

Chicken problem, not a feed problem.

 

[Ole rooster]

Seems to me you'll never know you have a problem till something happens. This layer feed from Alabama I use I guess is working well. When I go outside and even remotely go toward the coop these chicken just know I've got some kinda treat. I they run, fly, run and fly some more to get to me. I would guess that's somewhat like a scared run. At any rate nobody's limping so far.

And the ingredents being listed as "byproducts" would lead me to think grain husk instead of grain. I wouldn't like that wording at all.

 

[Chris09]

If in fact the bird had brittle bones the cold be more to the problem than just a Calcium (Ca) Deficiency,

There four thing that come to mind when I think of soft bones,
1 - Vitamin D3 is needed for proper metabolism of Calcium (Ca) and Phosphorus (P).
2 - Phosphorus (P) is needed for healthy bones, energy metabolism, and acid base balance in the body.
3 - Calcium is a very important part of a mature hens health, and laying eggs. Egg shells are almost completely made of calcium. Along with Vitamin D, calcium is a vital part of the egg laying process.
If the calcium intake of your hens is not adequate, you can have problems with the consistency of their laying, and soft egg shells.
4 - Magnesium is needed for healthy bones, proper nervous system functioning, and energy metabolism.

A deficiency of either calcium or phosphorus in the diet of young growing birds results in abnormal bone development even when the diet contains adequate vitamin D3. This condition, rickets, can also be caused by a dietary deficiency of vitamin D3 (Vitamin D3 Deficiency), which is necessary for absorption of calcium. A deficiency of either calcium or phosphorus results in lack of normal skeletal calcification. Rickets is seen mainly in growing birds. Calcium deficiency in adult laying hens usually results in reduced shell quality and osteoporosis. This depletion of bone structure causes a disorder commonly referred to as “cage layer fatigue.” When calcium is mobilized from bone to overcome a dietary deficiency, the cortical bone erodes and is unable to support the weight of the hen.

Abnormal development of the bones is discussed under calcium and phosphorus deficiencies ( Calcium and Phosphorus Imbalances) and manganese deficiency ( Manganese Deficiency). Vitamin D3 is required for the normal absorption and metabolism of calcium and phosphorus. A deficiency can result in rickets in young growing chickens or in osteoporosis and poor eggshell quality in laying hens, even though the diet may be well supplied with calcium and phosphorus. Laying hens fed a vitamin D3-deficient diet exhibit loss of egg production within 2-3 weeks, and depending on the degree of deficiency, shell quality deteriorates almost instantaneously. Using a corn-soybean meal diet with no supplemental vitamin D3, shell weight decreases dramatically by about 150 mg/day within 7 days. The less obvious decline in shell quality with suboptimal supplements is more difficult to diagnose than that seen with absolute deficiency, as it is very difficult to assay vitamin D3 in complete feeds. There is a significant increase in plasma 1,25(OH)2 D3 of birds producing good vs poor eggshells. Feeding purified 1,25(OH)2D3 improves the shell quality of these inferior layers, suggesting a potential inherent problem with metabolism of cholecalciferol. Retarded growth and severe leg weakness are the first signs noted when chicks are deficient in vitamin D3. Also, beaks and claws become soft and pliable. Chicks may have trouble walking and will take a few steps before squatting on their hocks. They often sway from side to side while resting, suggesting loss of equilibrium. Feathering is usually poor, and an abnormal banding of feathers is seen in colored breeds. With chronic vitamin D3 deficiency, marked skeletal disorders are noted. The spinal column may bend downward, and the sternum may deviate to one side. These structural changes reduce the size of the thorax with subsequent crowding of the internal organs. A characteristic finding in chicks is a beading of the ribs at the junction of the spinal column along with downward, and posterior bending. Poor calcification can be seen at the epiphysis of the tibia and femur. By dipping the split bone in a silver nitrate solution and allowing it to stand under an incandescent light for a few minutes, the calcified areas are easily distinguished from the areas of uncalcified cartilage. In the laying hen, signs of gross pathology are usually confined to the bones and parathyroid glands. Bones are soft and easily broken, and the ribs may become beaded. The ribs may also show spontaneous fractures in the sternovertebral region. Histologic examination shows deficiency of calcification in the long bones, with excess of osteoid tissue and parathyroid enlargement. Adding synthetic 1,25(OH)2D3 to the diet of susceptible chicks does reduce the incidence of this condition. Although the response is not dramatic and is quite variable, results suggest that some leg abnormalities may be a consequence of inefficient metabolism of cholecalciferol.

information above from Ultimate Fowl Wikipedia.


Chris

 

[Ridgerunner]

I agree it is much more likely an individual chicken problem than a feed problem. It's possible it is a nutrition problem, but many other things could cause a broken bone. You are looking at them and maybe you have some other reason than just this to suspect a nutrition problem. From what I read, I don't see any clear evidence that nutrition is the problem.

Sometimes things just happen. Sometimes perfectly healthy animals or people can just step on something wrong or get themselves into a situation that something happens. Just pure bad luck.

Some animals and people are more prone to accidents. Maybe they are clumsier than others. Maybe their peripheral vision isn't very good and they bump into more things.

Sometimes their bodies just don't process what they eat and extract and use the nutrients correctly. You see posts all the time where all the egg shells are fine except for one hen's. People go into a frenzy to force extra calcium into every chicken they have when only one has a problem with soft-shelled eggs. And a lot of time, one hen laying a very rare soft-shelled egg starts a program of extra calcium when the amount of calcium the hens eat has nothing to do with the problem. There is just a one time mistake in the hen's internal egg laying factory. Just a freak accident.

Just based on what you have posted, I don't see any evidence that clearly points to a nutritional problem.

 

[dragonlair]

I feed Blue Seal Egg maker crumbles or layer pellets. They seem to do well on them. I do add goat milk to the feed daily and they get eggs shells added to their feed.

 

[PattyO]

I want to thank everyone for their feedback on this. You just kind of look back on you husbandry practices when something like this happens. I dont feed my dogs organic feed but I know what is in it. The first three ingredients should be a specific whole meat or specific meat meal. Chicken, duck, salmon, venison etc. Meat by products are not bad ie the guts and stuff but in the pet food industry are not handled with the same care as muscle. Best avoided. The incredible vagueness of the ingredients of Purina Layena should piss people off. For all you dog owners check out the Whole Dog Journal. They will give you a list of canned and dry foods that meet their criteria. I believe the same holds true with poultry feed. Thanks

 

[Gypsi]

well now, I got on here to post about the hen I believe is laying my softest shelled eggs - sometimes just the membrane, no shell at all.

And in her case I found the problem a couple of days ago. She appears to be lowest hen on the pecking order, her siblings are not letting her eat when I feed in the morning. She is molting, losing more and more feathers. I observed this again this morning, she did eventually eat some of the purina game bird layer crumbles after the other hens had stopped feeding.

Based on my preliminary findings, it could easily be a hen problem, rather than a calcium problem for my whole flock. I'll start a new thread for the rest, but wanted to throw that out there. I'm sorry about your hen.

Gypsi

 

[elmo]

Countryside Organics is what I use, even though I have to pay $$$ for shipping. I love the stuff! It looks almost good enough to eat myself.

I started our original flock on a soy based locally produced feed, but when I switched I noticed the chickeny body odor that the flock had started to develop went away when I switched to Countryside.

 

[ninabeast]

My girls would never touch the oyster shell if I didn't put crushed egg shells on top of it. Then they eat the whole bowl.