Trouble with our own dog

[frewall]

Trust me, after a dog has killed a chicken, there is little you can do to break the dog. However, a hotwire about 1' from chickens (with white tassles attached intermittently) will soon keep the dog at bay. If your chickens get out, the dog will resume. I caught a huge sheperd in my varmint trap (leading into my chickens) and I shook/rolled the trap; the dog never returned.
My varmint trap is one I designed and built. So far I have caught 2 dogs, 1 cat, 3 possums and a racoon. It is 5' X 2' X 2', big enough for just about anything.
Fred /[email protected]

 

[Hennyhandler]

I understand not wanting to lose chickens to dogs but having both dogs and chickens outside for however long means trying to find a way to let the two coexist. Having a shock collar is cruel. It is not the dogs fault that he or she is following their instincts. I know that training a dog can be hard but yet again it is not the dogs fault and should not be blamed. I know that it sounds so easy to go out, buy a shock collar, put it on the dog, and problem solved but you need to understand that while you have solved your problem you are causing pain to your other pet as well.

 

[Cara]

For those who think shock collars are cruel and should never be used, there is something you need to bear in mind. Responsible dog ownership isn't all sunshine and rainbows. The correct use of a shock collar can save a dog's life whether it be from chasing vehicles, running livestock or game, or in our case instilling a healthy fear of rattlesnakes. We have used other methods, my dog was bitten two weeks later and spent the following ten days in the animal hospital. The pain that she suffered from that bite was far greater than during the aversion training we attended shortly after.

Abusive use of a shock collar is cruel, as is using one as a 'remote' rather than actively training the dog with positive methods. Used correctly they are a valuable tool and can save a dog from euthanasia or severe injury.

 

[Tala]

Quote:
A properly used shock collar is not cruel. Sure it CAN be used ini a cruel way, but so can any other training tool. Ever seen a dog dragged around by a regular choke collar??? How about a crushed trachia from that kind of "training"??? Yet anybody can get a cheap thin chain choke collar from ANY store that sells any dog collars, even WalMart.

A GOOD shock collar is the kind sold for duck hunting type training. Typically they range $300+ and are made by Dogtra and Tri-Tronics, although I think there's also an Innotek brand that I haven't used. I have a Dogtra 1900 fully waterproof model myself. The intensity ranges from 1 to 127 and it comes with a "test light" if you don't want to test it with your hand. Settings 1-10 don't even set off the light, that's how low they are. When properly used the shock collar is just an invisible leash.
If you want to know how to use one properly I can suggest http://leerburg.com/qaelectric.htm

 

[Minniechickmama]

Quote:
Exactly! I do not take joy in shocking my dogs, but it is a tool that can work in helping to train dogs who otherwise get tunneled into what they are doing. We do not zap them at a whim, but use it the way it was intended. If someone does not use a shock collar or believe it is a good thing to use, then don't use them yourselves. Not everyone agrees on this, I know. If my dogs are chasing chickens or running toward the road, I am going to zap them. Just saying, "Come Puppy!" doesn't cut it, and I don't want my pups to get hit in the road or killing my chickens. So, it is not just because I am too lazy to work with them, there are times you just need more than a leash and treats.

 

[Gray Ghost]

Quote:
My older dog got the message with the shock collar, the younger one it doesn't seem to faze him. He must have a much higher pain tolerance than me. I tried it on myself and it does not tickle. Of course, I did not put it on my neck, just my fingers.

Try the shock collar placed against your wrist. You should be able to feel it. If you can't feel it then it is either set too low or not working.

GG

 

[Gray Ghost]

Quote:
As a professional behaviorist using a shock collar on the highest setting (I never recommend them at all) is cruel and unnecessary. It is a "quick fix" but the dog hasn't learned that all chickens are off limits and at what cost? Of course it is really sad to lose the birds but I would imagine you got the dog for unconditional love also. Some breeds of dogs are very sensitive and this type of collar can literally ruin the dog--I've seen it-- permanent damage can be done.

Having chickens is a never ending battle to protect them and your dog is losing control over getting them. Your dog is a herding breed and can be trained to do such after slow familiarity on a leash. It is a much longer process and the dog may never be trusted alone with them but otherwise you are being unrealistic (and unfair) as the dog is only doing what it does normally. I myself will be training my Belgian Malinois, another herding and protection breed, as our chicks arrive in April. My plan will start soon by letting her be around the brooder without chicks for a while--right in the family room. I will also let her in the coop with me when no chickens are there many times so the coop itself isn't a draw. My dog is well trained to "leave it" and will leave a tasty roast alone--when I am there--there is no one saying "leave it" if I am not in the room! An electric fence is much better as the dog figures out the boundaries when no one is there (you will be watching close by). Please avoid the collar--but if you do use it never on a setting so high you "knock a dog to its knees."

So sorry about your loss

I agree that using a shock collar on it's highest setting should be unnecessary. However there are situations where a shock collar is necessary. [For example I am going to have to train my two 9 and 10 year old labradors not to chase / fetch my chickens, when I get chickens in a month or two. This will be challenging as these dogs have been trained all their lives to chase and fetch birds -- that is their breeding and function. But the dogs are intelligent and I am confident I can get them to pay attention to the "No. Leave it" command and be able to tell the difference between a chicken and a wild duck or goose. With a little practice and likely with some shock collar reinforcement.] There are a lot of good resources on the web, and dog training books, which tell how to use a shock collar correctly so as not to injure or traumatize the dog. As a general summary, a shock collar is not a panacea or cure-all. It is a reinforcement tool which helps you remind the dog that the dog must obey regardless of whether the dog is close to you or far from you. This means you first should train the dog without use of the shock collar so that the dog 100% knows what it is supposed to do when given a command. Then the shock collar is used to reinforce the command when the dog willfully ignores the command and the dog is not otherwise within your control.

Used with reasonable care, a shock collar will not change the unconditional love your dog has for you. And it can help make your dog obedient and therefore safer.

GG

 

[Nostalchic]

Hey, even Cesar Millan (my hero) recommends a shock collar under certain conditions! That said, my Vizsla mix has the strongest prey drive of any dog I've ever had, and we were able to teach her that the chickens were off limits. And that was

AFTER she killed one of my hens, so having killed one once does NOT mean that they can't be rehabilitated. My chickens free range over four acres, and she is often out there with them, ignores them, will lie in the barn yard with chickens scratching and eating all around her. And she doesn't even chase them if they go running/flying/cackling, which has got to be pretty hard to resist (she gives me a guilty look, though, because she was THINKING about chasing them!) It took time and patience and - you know - that confident pack leader attitude. "MY chickens!" Would I go off and leave her with them for long periods unsupervised? No. But really, this can be done. And I agree, if you have a trainer that says it can't, you should find another trainer.

 

[kota1369]

Quote:
I am very sorry for your lose. Accidents do happen and it sucks. If your training facility is telling you they can't help you with your dog they are absolute idiots and should NOT be dog trainers. That quite honestly is absolute horse pucky!
Your dogs is a German Shepherd. They were originally raised to be guardians (shepherds) protecters of livestock and their people, and for scent work. They are an all around dog! That is why they can be used for police work, theropy work, herding sheep, guarding chickens, be guides for the blind............... and on and on........................
I have had chickens for almost a full year now and I have 2 cocker spaniels who I can leave out with my 4 chickens. Just Sunday I was sitting in front of the tv and my BO started making a panic sound. All dogs were in the house, I saw 2 crows come up over the hill flying funny and ran to the back door as I saw a hawk come up over the hill after them. I opened the back door and sent my black cocker out there saying....... go go go go............................... He ran to the back fense whirled around looking around and then started stomping around. The girls were hiding close to the house and went right in their run with no coaxing at all. I was so proud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That afternoon, I let them out again with him and then brough my rottie who has NOT been off leash with them yet. She did exactly what I expected. Nothing. She didn't even look at them. But, I also have been training her and teaching her what I expect. Dogs do not know the rules or boundries until you teach them. No different then kids. Training is an every day thing and it is part of my everyday life with my dogs. I like having a peaceful house and I work hard at it. You can do it to..............

There are many people on here who have had their dogs kill a chicken or two and now the dog is a great guardian of their flock.

here is my 7 month old soon to be chicken guardian. As you can see, she pays no attention to them at all. She will soon be getting worked with around the chickens loose soon. I cant wait. Because she is a great yard dog and loves to help out.

The lady with 4 dogs, 4 city chickens, 2 bunnies and a lizard

 

[Minniechickmama]

Quote:
My older dog got the message with the shock collar, the younger one it doesn't seem to faze him. He must have a much higher pain tolerance than me. I tried it on myself and it does not tickle. Of course, I did not put it on my neck, just my fingers.

Try the shock collar placed against your wrist. You should be able to feel it. If you can't feel it then it is either set too low or not working.

GG

I did check it and periodically do so because the two wrestle so much and use their teeth, I have to check to see they didn't shut it off. He got a good enough charge, he just ignores it. She, on the other hand, after a couple of shocks, I just have to beep it and she knows and the beep is even more effective than the charge. He is another story, not the brightest of his breed either, my hubby says he is like Spicolli on Fast Times, total surfer mentality. We will work with them more and make this work, but fences will be in order anyway since we have many predators on foot and on wing here and want to guard against them. We are planning it so that the chickens will still have plenty of room to range, just not all over the yard, unfortunately.

It is nice to have folks to compare notes with and glean some information from on this topic. I do appreciate it. I am looking forward to getting some replacements next week, some very nice Welsummers to have my layers back. This time I will protect them better.

Take care and enjoy the lovely Spring that is creeping into our country again.