True Blue Whiting info please?

[AmandaMBG]

I think it's super fun having all sorts of colors too. Although I'm a little confused at their combs. They look like pea combs but they are larger than my EE pea combs at the same age. And you have McMurray who has been telling everyone they are single combs. I'm almost wondering if they are a larger version of a pea comb.

My father and some others have told me that their best birds were mixes/cross breeds.

 

[AmandaMBG]

So I forgot to put my update photos on the girls this last week. Here they are...
https://www.backyardchickens.com/content/type/61/id/7384752/width/200/height/400[/IMG
[IMG]https://www.backyardchickens.com/content/type/61/id/7384753/width/200/height/400

This coming week I'll try to take comb shots too.

 

[miasria]

I have been working on an Orpington lavender, Isabel project for the past few years. I love the Orpington breed and want to start a project to get blue eggs. I just ordered the smallest quantity of McMurray's 15 chicks.... All roosters. They are out of females. From there I can pick the nicest to breed to my Orpington hens.

Would like your opinions on how long the generational process might take to get Orpington looking chickens with blue eggs? How long to at least start getting blue eggs?

 

[MeepBeep]

Would like your opinions on how long the generational process might take to get Orpington looking chickens with blue eggs? How long to at least start getting blue eggs?

You can get similar looking chickens in a few generations assuming you breed enough so that you can pair ones with the looks you desire... This assumes you breed in mass, hatching say dozens of offspring, and culling back to one or two that have the looks you want per generation...

As for egg color, you will get 'green' eggs in the first generation due to the brown eggs the Orpingtons have... From there it gets more complicated to guess the egg color as you now have offspring that carry dominant and recessive egg color genes, and will no longer breed true, it will take you several other generations to filter out the split dominant and recessive gene birds and establish double recessive or double dominant birds for your breeding program... Be aware once you 'pollute' the blue egg gene with the brown from the Orpingtons it's going to take some serious work to restore a true blue colored egg, for the near future you will be stuck with 'green' eggs from the pairing...

Also be aware you realistically will need to either focus on looks or egg color initially, or run two different breeding programs simultaneously with different focuses...

 

[miasria]

Thank you! Perhaps I will start with the looks first. I like working with the lavender gene, so I hope to start there. Does anyone know if there is lavender in this strain? After my first cross, will I get no more brown eggs with future generations?

 

[MeepBeep]

After my first cross, will I get no more brown eggs with future generations?

Your first cross will get offspring that have a split blue/white egg shell gene, blue is dominant and will be expressed in all first generation birds thus all will lay a shade of green due to the brown overlay being introduced... What gets complicated is that this first generation will also have a mix of 13+ genes that control the brown overlay color and intensity, this brown 'overlay' pollution and the high number of genes that create it is where the unpredictable mess begins for color... Second generation chicks would return to brown if they get a double white shell gene, but it would likely be a different shade of brown likely lighter pink or orange (but not always) since the cluster of brown genes was diluted... Lots of variables when you have 13+ genes determining if the egg gets the brown color, to get back to a true blue color you will have to breed until all those 13+ genes are turned off...

From this point it's pretty easy to breed out the white or blue egg gene to breed true, but it's going to take a lot and I mean a lot of trial, error and culling to breed out the 13+ brown overlay genes to return to a true blue laying bird again...

FYI I have yet to see a Whiting True Blue egg in person, but the pictures online suggest that there is already some pollution of the 13+ brown genes thus giving the 'mint' green overtones to their eggs vs the bright sky blue seen in the original blue laying breed(s)...

 

[JRNash]

My father and some others have told me that their best birds were mixes/cross breeds.

That belief is supported by various university studies into growth rates of various crosses.google leghorn x jersey giant

 

[JRNash]

Ive read numerous articles that stated crosses were the most economical for the home farm

 

[JRNash]

Your first cross will get offspring that have a split blue/white egg shell gene, blue is dominant and will be expressed in all first generation birds thus all will lay a shade of green due to the brown overlay being introduced... What gets complicated is that this first generation will also have a mix of 13+ genes that control the brown overlay color and intensity, this brown 'overlay' pollution and the high number of genes that create it is where the unpredictable mess begins for color... Second generation chicks would return to brown if they get a double white shell gene, but it would likely be a different shade of brown likely lighter pink or orange (but not always) since the cluster of brown genes was diluted... Lots of variables when you have 13+ genes determining if the egg gets the brown color, to get back to a true blue color you will have to breed until all those 13+ genes are turned off...

From this point it's pretty easy to breed out the white or blue egg gene to breed true, but it's going to take a lot and I mean a lot of trial, error and culling to breed out the 13+ brown overlay genes to return to a true blue laying bird again...

FYI I have yet to see a Whiting True Blue egg in person, but the pictures online suggest that there is already some pollution of the 13+ brown genes thus giving the 'mint' green overtones to their eggs vs the bright sky blue seen in the original blue laying breed(s)...

I've read alot on this subject,and what Ive come away with is that you should NEVER put a brown layer into the mix

 

[MeepBeep]

I've read alot on this subject,and what Ive come away with is that you should NEVER put a brown layer into the mix

If you want to maintain a 'blue' egg that is probably good advice, I can see it easily taking a decade or even decades of devoted and intense breeding programs to rid yourself of brown once introduced...

There has not even been enough study to date to property identify what if all genes are responsible for the brown color, it's quite a complex subject that likely involves incompletely dominant genes, multiple modifier genes and even inhibiting genes...

A decent overview of the subject and a decent read http://www.maranschickenclubusa.com/files/eggreview.pdf