Trying to get back to normal

[bhawk-23]

I've really had a tough time since my vacation. I came back to a stressed and sick flock, broken coop door and a raccoon that visits nightly now.
I've lost 2 hens and I'm worried for the rest.
I brought in a dutch bantam because she was thin and feathers ruffled. She and her sister, another dutch bantam, we're bullied bad in their old flock so we took them in. They always stuck together and were not bothered by our girls or rooster.
When she had put some weight on I decided to put her back out. But her sister went straight for her. And would not quit! Taco was retreating and submitting but Tico was relentless. I watched for a few minutes and then stepped between them. Stepped back and Tico went for her again so I decided Tico needed to be brought in so I could watch Taco with the rest of the flock. She is terrified, submissive and vigilant but no one bothers her. I'm sure she feels lonely because Tico was her buddy.

Why would this change happen? How long do I keep Tico in? I've not dealt with this kind of bullying, ever, so I'm at a loss.

So many changes happened and I'm really starting to rethink my capabilities. I felt like we had a healthy happy flock before I left but now I'm at a total loss. The raccoon keeps coming despite fixing the door and making sure no food is left out. I've lost 2 hens and now I have an extreme bullying case to deal with. What gives? Any words of wisdom to help get my flock back on track?

I am waiting on a necropsy report from one of the deceased hens and the other was taken by the state to test for AI, which was negative. I did find out when I took a girl to the vet that my flock is MG positive.

 

[Callender Girl]

How heartbreaking; you've having a really rough time with so many problems at once! A predator, bullying, sick hens -- and all when you return from a vacation! Overwhelming!

I'd check with the DNR to see what they might be able to do with your raccoon visitor. A DNR officer came out and relocated a juvenile great horned owl that dazed itself by hitting a guy wire while stalking my flock. Maybe the DNR can offer your visitor a new home?

In the meantime, upgrade your coop security however you have to -- for their safety and your peace of mind. Once you have a predator, it's hard to feel safe again, even when it is safe. And, predators are relentless in returning to a potential free meal.

Bullying is such a weird situation. I had six chicks who were brooded together and cooped together their whole lives. All of a sudden, one girl became everyone's target, and poor Lottie spent her first summer with not a single feather on her butt. The next summer, no one bothered her, and she looked lovely. There was no new target in that coop, and everyone still gets along.

Chickens HAVE to have a pecking order. It's too bad issues have come up with Taco and Tico. Can you put Tico outside in a large dog crate so that Taco can see her and they can reconcile their differences without Taco getting hurt? The see, but don't touch method is often used for integrating new birds into a flock, but maybe it would help with this sibling squabble.

Hope things improve for you; keep us posted! You are a good, caring chicken keeper.

 

[Mrs. K]

As you have found out, separating chickens often times causes more problems than it solves. If you feel you have to do that again, either bring in a pair or only bring them in for a couple of hours a day, or separate them in the coop/run, but where they are still visible to everyone. Chickens do not remember other chickens very long. A low order bird, is desperate not be to lower than the bird coming into the flock, and hence that is why she (the former friend) was so vicious. A lot of people are horrified at how mean chickens can be.

Racoons have long been my worst enemy. I know you are an animal lover, but you need to trap that raccoon. Maybe have someone else do it for you, and do NOT go look when they catch him, they will look darling...just remember they tear your chickens apart - not nice. I swear once I had a raccoon, that left a message, "please leave BBQ sauce, I am tire of them plain" UGH! Thing is, once they find you, they will treat your coop like a tasty freeze. AND THEY WILL BRING FRIENDS.

My DH finally built me a coon proof coop/run out of chain link fence over the top, totally enclosed. It is the only thing that will keep them out.

As for you current fighting pair. Do you have a lot of clutter in your run/coop? Where birds can get away from other birds? Ladders, sawhorses, pallets leaned agains the wall, up on blocks, roosts in the run, mini walls all provide more interest to the birds, and allow birds to use the vertical space in the run, get more exercise, and to get away from each other.

Multiple feed bowls are important, but they must be set up, so that a bird eating at one bowl cannot see a bird eating at another feed bowl. I have a feed bowl for about every 3-5 birds. Multiple waters too, this will help keep all your birds fed.

The thing about victim chickens, is they can learn that behavior and almost seem to invite an attack. Bantams often times just do not fit in with full size chickens. It seems like you had a pair that did, but pulled the pair apart. It worries me that one of the birds was thin, rather makes me think that she was bullied away from the feed and maybe they didn't fit in the flock as well as you thought.

I think that you need to do something different for both bantams - pulling them out of your main flock, and putting them in a smaller coop/run. Separating them for a couple of days in a see, but no touch situation, and they both should calm down. If you can't do that, I would give them to someone who has a bantam flock. Size matters in the chicken world and they won't just be nice.

Keeping chickens means making tough decisions. Always solve for peace in the flock.

Mrs K

 

[bhawk-23]

How heartbreaking; you've having a really rough time with so many problems at once! A predator, bullying, sick hens -- and all when you return from a vacation! Overwhelming!

I'd check with the DNR to see what they might be able to do with your raccoon visitor. A DNR officer came out and relocated a juvenile great horned owl that dazed itself by hitting a guy wire while stalking my flock. Maybe the DNR can offer your visitor a new home?

In the meantime, upgrade your coop security however you have to -- for their safety and your peace of mind. Once you have a predator, it's hard to feel safe again, even when it is safe. And, predators are relentless in returning to a potential free meal.

Bullying is such a weird situation. I had six chicks who were brooded together and cooped together their whole lives. All of a sudden, one girl became everyone's target, and poor Lottie spent her first summer with not a single feather on her butt. The next summer, no one bothered her, and she looked lovely. There was no new target in that coop, and everyone still gets along.

Chickens HAVE to have a pecking order. It's too bad issues have come up with Taco and Tico. Can you put Tico outside in a large dog crate so that Taco can see her and they can reconcile their differences without Taco getting hurt? The see, but don't touch method is often used for integrating new birds into a flock, but maybe it would help with this sibling squabble.

Hope things improve for you; keep us posted! You are a good, caring chicken keeper.

Thank you for your kind words and reply.
The raccoon cannot get in. Our coop is hardware cloth from top down to the 2 ft apron and metal roof. They sleep on open air roosts so we know they know it's there. How could I remedy that? Good idea to call DNR if it continues through the weekend. The camera had a quick trigger at 4 am but no raccoon was seen.

Tico has been inside for 3 days now. If I move her out should it be in the evening when all the chickens are near the coop? Otherwise she would be in a cage when the others are free ranging. Could that make her more upset? Once I had a girl in for 3 weeks due to crop surgery. When I put her, out an aspiring hen went for her, but I pinned that hen and Esther pecked her once. They've been good since. But Esther was older and above that hen before her surgery. Taco would be too frightened to due the same.

 

[Callender Girl]

@Mrs. K made offered some useful information on solving your separation problem. I was unaware of the "victim chicken" behavior.

For me, it all depends on the individual chickens and their response to the situation. My Cochin Bantams fit in fine with the full-sized girls they run loose with all day. My two older Bantams grew up elsewhere and spent their lives with big hens. They sleep in their own small coop. My younger CBs successfully coop with two full-sized hens that they brooded with.

The pecking order is sometimes far beyond human understanding.

Good luck!

 

[bhawk-23]

As you have found out, separating chickens often times causes more problems than it solves. If you feel you have to do that again, either bring in a pair or only bring them in for a couple of hours a day, or separate them in the coop/run, but where they are still visible to everyone. Chickens do not remember other chickens very long. A low order bird, is desperate not be to lower than the bird coming into the flock, and hence that is why she (the former friend) was so vicious. A lot of people are horrified at how mean chickens can be.

Racoons have long been my worst enemy. I know you are an animal lover, but you need to trap that raccoon. Maybe have someone else do it for you, and do NOT go look when they catch him, they will look darling...just remember they tear your chickens apart - not nice. I swear once I had a raccoon, that left a message, "please leave BBQ sauce, I am tire of them plain" UGH! Thing is, once they find you, they will treat your coop like a tasty freeze. AND THEY WILL BRING FRIENDS.

My DH finally built me a coon proof coop/run out of chain link fence over the top, totally enclosed. It is the only thing that will keep them out.

As for you current fighting pair. Do you have a lot of clutter in your run/coop? Where birds can get away from other birds? Ladders, sawhorses, pallets leaned agains the wall, up on blocks, roosts in the run, mini walls all provide more interest to the birds, and allow birds to use the vertical space in the run, get more exercise, and to get away from each other.

Multiple feed bowls are important, but they must be set up, so that a bird eating at one bowl cannot see a bird eating at another feed bowl. I have a feed bowl for about every 3-5 birds. Multiple waters too, this will help keep all your birds fed.

The thing about victim chickens, is they can learn that behavior and almost seem to invite an attack. Bantams often times just do not fit in with full size chickens. It seems like you had a pair that did, but pulled the pair apart. It worries me that one of the birds was thin, rather makes me think that she was bullied away from the feed and maybe they didn't fit in the flock as well as you thought.

I think that you need to do something different for both bantams - pulling them out of your main flock, and putting them in a smaller coop/run. Separating them for a couple of days in a see, but no touch situation, and they both should calm down. If you can't do that, I would give them to someone who has a bantam flock. Size matters in the chicken world and they won't just be nice.

Keeping chickens means making tough decisions. Always solve for peace in the flock.

Mrs K

Ah yes, the pecking order took me a long time to be ok with. We had a Serama roo get aggressive to the full size top hen so he went to the butcher's block within days. I do under peace in a flock is always the best solution.
Catching the raccoon will be a must. Since the dogs were back and we don't feed on the ground, like the sitter did, I was hoping it would leave again. But apparently that is not the case. I'll call about trapping it on Monday.

I do believe our coop will stand up to a raccoon

Yes, plenty of room and feeders/waterers but I did not know about the line of sight issue. I am adding in one more feeder today and will keep that in mind.

As for the multiple sizes we've had 2 Serama in with this flock for a year with no issues and these bantams since January, also with no issue. I am neurotic and fascinated, with their interactions and check on them multiple times a day. I can tell you the pecking order with certainty. I wonder if that was part of the stress. I come out so often that it may help in keeping the flock occupied.

We have been dealing with MG, unbeknownst to me, since Feb/March. I treated with tylosin at that time and saw them improve. I think the 9 days away really stressed them out. Maybe they weren't all recovered from the first bought and I did not know since the sneezing stopped for all but 1 who took longer. She is the one we lost first.

 

[bhawk-23]

Ok, I have been outside working some and watching the flock since 9:30 am. There has been no bullying directed towards her outside of the usual peck. She is very submissive. Her feathers are ruffled (which they have been since I returned), she will rest, puffed up, free range and eat some mash. Her poop is turning yellow which makes me wonder if the MG has caused a secondary infection since the other two, now deceased, birds also showed this before the extremely green diarrhea. Maybe she is sicker than I know?

I am seriously at a loss on how to proceed with my flock and any more chickens that start showing similar symptoms of the other two. I'm not even sure normal is attainable at this point.

 

[knobhillfarm]

I’m sorry to hear about the troubles with your flock. It’s easy to get overwhelmed with all you have going on, but just try to focus on one thing at a time. MG is a tough thing to deal with as chickens tend to remain carriers and it rears its ugly head whenever a stressful situation arises. Not sure how large your flock is, but even in a small flock that can seem demoralizing. My friend had this issue last summer and ended up having to cull his flock of 12, sanitize everything, and start over. Just know this is not your fault and you’re doing the best you can do with what you have to work with.

 

[bhawk-23]

I’m sorry to hear about the troubles with your flock. It’s easy to get overwhelmed with all you have going on, but just try to focus on one thing at a time. MG is tough think to deal with as chickens tend to remain carriers and it rears its ugly head whenever a stressful situation arises. Not sure how large your flock is, but even in a small flock that can seem demoralizing. My friend had this issue last summer and ended up having to cull his flock of 12, sanitize everything, and start over. Just know this is not your fault and you’re doing the best you can do with what you have to work with.

The diagnosing vet and the necropsy Dr (at drop off) both told me to consider culling and waiting a few months and start over. That option seems impossible to me right now. But watching them get sick one by one is becoming more evident. I was thinking to cull the ones that appear more sick, like ruffled feathers, puffy eyes, laying down more often and then concentrating on the ones that seem to be fighting it better. I'm ok with a closed flock. And it might help reduce stress on me which I'm sure will help the flock when I'm not hovering over them even more than usual. Lol

 

[knobhillfarm]

It’s very evident that you care deeply about them. Sorry you have all these tough decisions to make right now. I’m sure you will figure it out one step at a time.