Turkey breeds/genetics

[R2elk]

This is the part has me confused! The Royal Palm/Sweetgrass cross will presumably be the average of the parents in terms of size and shape, but it's still considered Sweetgrass?! Does that mean Sweetgrass is just a color, with no consideration for size or shape?

The Sweetgrass derived from that crossing may be slightly smaller than Sweetgrass that have not gone through that crossing which is due to the different body characteristics of the two varieties but it is definitely not an average since Royal Palms are significantly smaller than Sweetgrass.

The Narragansett color gene (nn or n-) is the only difference in the color genetics between the Royal Palm and the Sweetgrass.

There is a difference in the other body conformation and make up genes that appears that the ones that the Sweetgrass has may be dominant to the ones that the Royal Palm has. I have not seen any DNA studies of the genes controlling the body shape for turkeys.

We do know that there is a gene or genes controlling the broad breast aspect.

 

[fat brown hen]

There is a difference in the other body conformation and make up genes that appears that the ones that the Sweetgrass has may be dominant to the ones that the Royal Palm has. I have not seen any DNA studies of the genes controlling the body shape for turkeys.

We do know that there is a gene or genes controlling the broad breast aspect.

This makes perfect sense now, thank you. And thank you to @Amer and everyone else who chimed in to help me understand what I'm getting into

 

[Amer]

This inconsistency has always annoyed me. It makes no sense that dogs, wolves, and dingoes are considered distinct species when they can readily interbreed.

I thought they were considered the same species with dogs being the domestic version and dingoes being a type of feral dog that became truly wild again.

 

[Amer]

An example of breed being the wrong term to use to separate the different varieties is that if you breed a Sweetgrass tom to a Royal Palm hen, all of the offspring will be Sweetgrass turkeys. They won't be a Royal Palm / Sweetgrass hybrid, they will be Sweetgrass.

But what if you were to breed a white Holland with a Beltsville, what would you have then?
They would be white, but wouldn’t be the right size to be considered either variety. Therefore, though breed might be the wrong term, so is variety.
Or a Broad Breasted White with a Bourbon Red? Obviously the coloring would depend upon what is hiding under the white. But it would be broad breasted and have at least one copy of the red gene. It would be what I would consider a crossbreed.

 

[R2elk]

But what if you were to breed a white Holland with a Beltsville, what would you have then?

White with the size being similar to the Holland.

Or a Broad Breasted White with a Bourbon Red?

What I got was a Red Bronze but other varieties are a possibility.

But it would be broad breasted and have at least one copy of the red gene.

It would have one copy of the broad breasted gene but there are other things involved with why BBW are so big (selective breeding) than just the broad breasted gene.

I have had the broad breasted gene show up in Blue Slates that were still the standard size.
Blue Slates are not considered cross breeds but are heterozygous for the dominant slate gene.

 

[TexasBlues]

I saw the wild turkeys close up at the phoenix zoo the other day, they sure are beautiful with the iridescent feathers. I’m thinking they were Merriam’s subspecies.
I’d like to some day raise a flock of rio grandes here at the family ranch.
Any idea on the difference of body size between the heritage birds and the wild rio grandes?

 

[fat brown hen]

I saw the wild turkeys close up at the phoenix zoo the other day, they sure are beautiful with the iridescent feathers. I’m thinking they were Merriam’s subspecies.
I’d like to some day raise a flock of rio grandes here at the family ranch.
Any idea on the difference of body size between the heritage birds and the wild rio grandes?

I think it varies. R2elk said he's seen wild turkeys as big as heritage turkeys. On the other hand, this wild turkey was about the size of a housecat (note the long beard -- this was not a juvenile). It was smaller than what I normally see, but not by a lot. I hope someone more knowledgeable chimes in though

 

[R2elk]

I think it varies. R2elk said he's seen wild turkeys as big as heritage turkeys. On the other hand, this wild turkey was about the size of a housecat (note the long beard -- this was not a juvenile). It was smaller than what I normally see, but not by a lot. I hope someone more knowledgeable chimes in though
View attachment 3723098

There's good reason that it is on the small side. It is not a juvenile male. It is a bearded hen.

You can see more bearded hens here.

Let's See Your Bearded Turkey Hens​

 

[R2elk]

I saw the wild turkeys close up at the phoenix zoo the other day, they sure are beautiful with the iridescent feathers. I’m thinking they were Merriam’s subspecies.
I’d like to some day raise a flock of rio grandes here at the family ranch.
Any idea on the difference of body size between the heritage birds and the wild rio grandes?

I couldn't find a specification for live weight but it may be about 20 lbs. for a Rio Grande tom. That would make it similar in size to Royal Palm turkeys.

 

[fat brown hen]

There's good reason that it is on the small side. It is not a juvenile male. It is a bearded hen.

You can see more bearded hens here.

Let's See Your Bearded Turkey Hens​

A bearded lady?! I thought I had to go to the circus to see one of those.

I was doing more reading, and it sounds like a Royal Palm or Narragansett male crossed with any other variety of female will produce sex-linked poults. Does anyone do this? There must be a lot of demand for sexed poults.