Turkeys For 2013

[Arielle]

Quote: You have a plan!!

 

[KrisH]

just thinking a standard bronze hen or two may be much easier to come by, then you can be sure which ones are hens as soon as they hatch. that is how we got our auburn hens. we only got one auburn from Porters and it turned out to be a tom, but we got 4 bronze hens. Now we have 2 auburn hens, and 1 auburn tom. We sold off all the red bronze poults in the spring.

RobertH

 

[Arielle]

Quote:
have you tried tossing in alfalfa hay?.. mine will tear it up during the winter when we don't have anything for them to munch on in the pasture
Alfalfa is nearly imposible to get here. ANd if I could I would and give it to the old horses. RIght now they get fermented alf cubes. OTher wise they do get hay--just not alfalfa.

Quote:

I thought the same thing.

I hear another trick is to pack in a chick box.

 

[Celie]

When I ordered I did tell him I was planning to breed these, which is why I was able to get far more than the max number of auburns. SO I was initally happy, until all survuving developed into toms. Several have gone to freezer camp. Leaving 6 for final inspection.

As far as substitution goes, that worked in my favor. THe two other breeds that I really wanted were already sold out for the season,but I put them in as subs. ANd then hoped he had exttras-- got the narrigansetts -- both toms!! So I was happy for the substitutes.

Full price is more than I care to splurge when they go for 6-7$ on sale, or they did that year, not sure about 2013. I didn't look or I would have been tempted!!


Generally all my birds seem to be good examples of their breed. THe 2 narri are almost identical and of the 6 Auburns I am struggleing with who stays and who goes. THe sweetgrass are beautiful.He does sell mixed breeds, they are listed as project birds-- are those the ones you are referring to??

If I"m going to do cross breds I think I would like a little BBW in the mix!!

What can you do with just 1 of a breed? Whouldn't it have been better, substituting another sweetgrass, or Whatever other breed you ordered? !0 tom Auburns + 2 tom Narrtgansetts is 12 toms out of an order of 15, Not the average hatch ratios. What were the sweetgerass, all females? LOL You sound like a tom magnet !

I am only joking. If you want a little BBW in the mix, visit your local feed store in the spring and pick out a couple of hens, the way I posted for determining sex, for about $5 each, put a 9 or 10 month heritage tom over her when she reaches 6 months old and tarts laying eggs to breed your own crosses. I would suggest a large breed heritage, cause I don't thing a Midget or Beltsville would accomplish the deed! LOL They would only be for your own freezer, right? Every time we cross turkeys, we can't keep calling it a new breed, can we? A mutt is great, but it is still a mutt? Isn't it At least for 10 generations of careful line breeding( I think)

If I can't find another young BR tom , by the time my 1 hen starts to lay, I will put a Midget tom or a Holland tom with her to see if I can get a medium BB white or red turkey for just my own use. I would not sell a cross breed as a Heritage, A hybrid, is a hybrid, even if they can breed naturally. A purple bean crossed with a green bean is still a bean, but it is a hybrid and it's future generations will not look like the original cross. Maybe I am simplifying this too much, so I will shut up now!

 

[Arielle]

Quote: I changed my shipping method to mark the box as above. THe last shipment went out from a PO I don't use very often. New to me guy behind counter replied to my quiry about h andling saying they go in with all the other priority boxes. My forced reposonse was that they are supposed to get special handling. He did n't know anything about that.

Box too a few extra days to arrive. Someone made sure it traveled correctly.

I usually go to two other po-- one is always very careful, and the other is now very careful after I educated them, very nicely, about the rules.

 

[Arielle]

just thinking a standard bronze hen or two may be much easier to come by, then you can be sure which ones are hens as soon as they hatch. that is how we got our auburn hens. we only got one auburn from Porters and it turned out to be a tom, but we got 4 bronze hens. Now we have 2 auburn hens, and 1 auburn tom. We sold off all the red bronze poults in the spring.

RobertH

THis begs the question . . .

Auburns are supposed to be an old breed. If they are crossed with bronze are they still an old breed?Or is POrters site misleading and his birds are not from an old line of pure bred auburns???

( q open to anyone)

 

[KrisH]

Quote: That was supposed to be the GREAT thing about Auburn color that they could be sex linked for sexing at hatch, but it never relly cought on, but that separates auburn from all other varieties. Auburn to auburn gives auburn, Auburn TOM to Bronze HEN gives red-brobze toms and Auburn hens only. so if you have someone who wants large birds for the holidays, there is no doubt. or a small family wants smaller birds, or eggs, you can gueantee a hen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auburn_(turkey)
I think Porters site says basically the same

RobertH

 

[Arielle]

Quote:

I agree it is appropriate to be clear with buyers about the genetics of the poult. Some don't mind a mix heritage poult. I would expect them to grow faster than the straight bred poults on average.

As for the poults numbers from POrters, I started with 21-22 poults-- lost 4-5 poults along the way-- newb still learning.( sigh) Probably all hens.

I started chuckling at the image of a MW climbing on a 6 m BBW---

ok now its reached ROFL

Sweetgrass-- 1 tom + 2 hens, lost the 4th one.

 

[LBejaran]

Standard Bronze is the second largest American Heritage breeds, The hen might only weigh 25#s or so, but the Tom, should be about 45# at 17 months. Heritage turkeys, in my experience, take about 8 or 9 months to grow their frame, bones, organs, etc. They will be big and fluff up their feathers to look bigger than what they are, but when you pick them up and weigh them, you will be amazed, they are skinny with very small breasts and a third of the breast will be a layer of fat. At maturity, 17 to 18 months, they reach their max. weight and will have triple the meat, and taste so much richer and flavorful ! I raise HW, which are slightly larger, by about 10%, last year, we processed 2 for Thanksgiving and I didn.t have a scale to weigh them live, but at 18 months, they weighed 34# 12 oz and 35 # exactly. Neither would fit into the new smoker, so we processed a third that was close to 10 months, all toms. The younger one weighed 20 pounds and was mostly bone and legs, with a small breast. All were toms, I do not process hens unless they are injured, and then I do it as quickly as possible, so I don't have time to weigh them. I sold a 10 month old tom to a guy, last week who wanted a young tom for Thanksgiving(I now have a set up to weigh them live. He was almost 8 months old and weighed 22 pounds to the ounce, live. I told the man to feel his breast, he thought it was large, I warned him it was mostly fat and for the next month or so to use a high protein feed to finish him off for meat. Corn or bread will put on more fat, not meat. Meat protein,(bugs, crickets, meal worms, even ground trimmings of table meat, plus soy beans and acorns, etc. would increase the protein. I finish mine off with 28% protein wild game bird pellets, over ripe or bruised fruit from the orchard and allow them into the spent spring garden to forage for more bugs. from 6 months old, mine forage on a lot of pasture and get lower protein treats like bread and kitchen scraps to keep them out of the summer garden, so that and raiding the chicken's feed, they ar probably closer to 22%. After they reach 15 months, again I increase the protein for a 17 to 18 month harvest. After 18 months, additional weight gain is very minimal, but can be held until you want to process them, because turkeys do not get touch and stringy like chickens do. I have processed turkeys over 3 years old and could not tell any difference. They will continue to eat, but after they reach a year, their feed consumption really drops drastically. I have 10 toms, approximately 18 to 20 months old, that I do not plan to winter over, so I am processing a few for the freezer, halfing the breasts and making "beef roasts" out of the thighs, (everyone who says they do not eat dark turkey meat, think they are eating the best roast beef they ever had, when I cook them in left over beef gravy hehehe), and grinding the rest and making stock out of the bones. 3 or 4 will be processed 3 days before Thanksgiving and Christmas and I hope to sell the remaining. I have about a dozen 7 to 10 month old toms for next year(2 for breeders and the rest for Holidays and freezer camp), a dozen or more hens for breeders, a few Midget whites to breed and one Bourbon hen who needs a young tom. BTW, I like to use a yearling tom( around 1 year old) for breeding rather than an older tom, because they are lighter and not has heavy on the smaller weight hens. Your hens produce more eggs with less injuries!

A 50# tom mounting a 25#hen can cause internal damage as well as rip open her side with his more developed spurs.
That reminds me, it is time to remove some rooster and tom spurs, before mating gets going too strong again!

Woah, okay, I was totally not expecting them to get that big! I'm kinda terrified that our tom won't fit into our oven, though. But this at least justifies processing our tom before he gets too old to get on Jenny. I'll probably have to purchase a poult around the same time I did this year, but that's fine until I can get another bloodline in there. It's so odd, though, that turkeys don't seem to get stringy or tough. I guess I need to do some more research on them.

Wow, that's kinda cool! My Dad doesn't like dark meat very much, much to my and my sister's bemusement considering how much he says he prefers flavor to appearance, so I'm going to have to get him to try it. I am really glad we took on this turkey endeavor. Raising them has been fun and, while they take much longer to get to a decent size, I've enjoyed them more than some of my chickens. Hopefully, Jenny can produce offspring for years so we can keep her. I know everyone says not to name or get attached, but I don't know how you can't, haha! If she can keep reproducing for us, we won't need to let her go for a long while.

 

[desertmarcy]

I would not sell a cross breed as a Heritage, A hybrid, is a hybrid, even if they can breed naturally. A purple bean crossed with a green bean is still a bean, but it is a hybrid and it's future generations will not look like the original cross. Maybe I am simplifying this too much, so I will shut up now!

The definition of a heritage turkey has nothing to do with whether it is a cross breed and breeds true or not. The American Livestock Conservancy has the definition of a heritage turkey:
From their website:
Heritage turkeys are defined by the historic, range-based production system in which they are raised. Turkeys must meet all of the following criteria to qualify as a Heritage turkey:
1. Naturally mating: the Heritage Turkey must be reproduced and genetically maintained through natural mating, with expected fertility rates of 70-80%. This means that turkeys marketed as “heritage” must be the result of naturally mating pairs of both grandparent and parent stock.
2. Long productive outdoor lifespan: the Heritage Turkey must have a long productive lifespan. Breeding hens are commonly productive for 5-7 years and breeding toms for 3-5 years. The Heritage Turkey must also have a genetic ability to withstand the environmental rigors of outdoor production systems.
3. Slow growth rate: the Heritage Turkey must have a slow to moderate rate of growth. Today’s heritage turkeys reach a marketable weight in about 28 weeks, giving the birds time to develop a strong skeletal structure and healthy organs prior to building muscle mass. This growth rate is identical to that of the commercial varieties of the first half of the 20th century.