Two dead and two with same problem

[chickbird]

WHY IS IT THAT ALOT OF GAME BIRD FEED/QUAIL FEED HAS ANTIBIOTICS IS IT IS HARMFUL TO THE QUAIL?

 

[chickbird]

SORRY ABOUT SECOND POST.

 

[kahlertm]

Well the jury is out on "harmful to the Quail". Google Coccidostats. One of the millers in my area will only sell the medicated as he is concerned that newbies will expose their quail to dirt, or let wild birds have accidental "access" to feed and water (bird flies into or over pen and poops in it, spreading coccidiosis or enteritis causing disease. While they don't PREVENT the disease like a vaccination, it is apparently felt by these companies that it can help control the problem. Look it up on line or look at the website of the food company you choose or HAVE to buy from. Look up the active ingredient or medication listed on the label. Do the homework that most of us have to do to find out what is going into your birds, so that you make informed decisions. We've all been there and made these decisions. I don't think we (IMHO) can tell you why the companies do this and/or if it is harmful to the quail with out published studies to prove such a statement.

I hope this helps.

I don't think that posting the question twice in large letters sort of "at" your fellow helpers and enthusiasts helps us to help you. People do want to let you know their experience here and share. But answering for big Ag. Business as to why? We can't...you must help your situation using study.

Most respectfully,
Tonya

 

[JJMR794]

WHY IS IT THAT LOT OF GAMEBIRD/QUAIL FEED HAS ANTIBIOTICS IF IT IS HARMFUL TO QUAIL?

WELL NOW THERE'S SOME VARIABLES TO THIS SITUATION...

GAMEBIRD RATIONS ARE FORMULATED FOR GAMEBIRDS... ALL TRUE GAMEBIRDS HAVE VERY SIMILAR NEEDS SO THIS IS A SHOTGUN PATERN~ NUTRITIONALLY ~ TO COVER THE GAMBIT. KEEP IN MIND THERE ARE MANY GAMEBIRDS THAT ARE MUCH LARGER THAN QUAIL( LIKE EVERY SINGLE SPECIES OF PHEASANT, PARTRIDGE, AND GROUSE). ALSO KEEP IN MIND THAT COTURNIX AND BUTTONS EAT LIKE A 3 HEADED TEENAGE BOY AS COMPARED TO THEIR SIZE/ BODY MASS INDEX... THE MEDICATIONS ADDED ARE DONE SO IN A PORTION TO PROVIDE PROPHYLACTIC COVERAGE, NOT ACUTE TREATMENT. THIS PORTION IS BASED ON WEIGHT AS IS ANY CHEMICAL COMPOUND INGESTED. THESE COMPOUNDS ALL HAVE VARIOUS "THERAPUTIC" BLOOD LEVELS AND THIS EXTENDS ALL THE WAY FROM NOT ENOUGH TO BE USEFUL, TO THE "LETHAL TOXICITY" RANGE. SINCE BUTTONS MORE SPECIFICALLY, BUT ALSO POSSIBLE WITH COTS, EAT SO MUCH THEY CONSUME MORE THAN THE TARGETED DOSE OF CHEMICAL COMPOUND PER THEIR BODY MASS IN ANY GIVEN 24HR PERIOD, THUS THEY CAN GET INTO THE TOXIC AND/ OR LETHAL RANGES OF MEDICATION IN THEIR SYSTEM EASIER THAN ANY OTHER GAME BIRD... TOXICITY LEVEL VARY ACCORDING TO BIRD SIZE AND AMOUNT INGESTED AND CAN BE NOTHING MORE THAN MAKING THE BIRD LESS THRIFTY TO MAKING IT STERILE OR CAUSING KIDNEY FAILURE ALL THE WAY TO MAKING THE BIRD DEAD IN SEVERE CASES WITH HIGH ENOUGH TOXICITY. NOW YOU KNOW HOW THE MEDICATIONS CAN BE HARMFUL

NOW AS TO WHY BIG FEED COMPANIES MAKE MEDICATED FEEDS... WELL THATS SIMPLE ECONOMICS ~ SUPPLY AND DEMAND. IF YOUR CUSTOMER BASE WANTS IT, A SUCESSFUL BUSINESS MODEL DICTATES YOU MAKE IT. MANY OLD TIMERS, LARGE COMMERCIAL FARMS, AND SOME FOLKS WHO JUST BELIEVE ITS BEST WANT IT... SO THEY MAKE IT

AND OF COURSE LARGE COMPANIES ARE USUALLY CONCERNED WITH BOTTOM LINE... THAT MEANS MAKE THE PRODUCT AS CHEAPLY AS REASONABLE AND SELL IT FOR A GOOD PROFIT MARGIN... HERE'S WHERE THE DIFFICULTY ARISES FOR MANY FOLKS... YOU SEE A BIG FEED COMPANY HAS FIGURED OUT ITS MORE COST EFFECTIVE TO MAKE FEED ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY... IF THEY ONLY MADE IT IN 1 LOCATION THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO GATHER RAW MATERIALS FROM ALL OVER AND TRUCK IT TO THE PLANT, THEN MAKE THE FEED, THEN TRUCK THE FEED BACK ALL OVER THE COUNTRY TO SELL... SEEN THE PRICE OF DIESEL FUEL LATELY? ~~~ KEEP IN MIND THE AVERAGE TRACTOR TRAILER GETS ABOUT 2 TO 4 MILES TO THE GALLON WHEN LOADED. SO ITS CHEAPER TO MAKE THE FEED IN REGIONAL LOCATIONS AND HAVE LESS TRANSPORT COSTS ON BOTH ENDS... THIS INCREASES YOUR BOTTOM LINE.

~~~ NOW LETS SAY YOU LIVE IN A GEOGRAPHICAL AREA WHERE THERE'S LARGE PHEASANT FARMS THAT HATCH OUT 1000'S OF THESE GOOFY BEASTS EACH SPRING AND SELL THEM, ONCE GROWN, TO PAY TO HUNT FARMS (THIS IS CALLED THE PHEASANT BELT BY THE FEED COMPANIES) THESE LARGE COMMERCIAL FARMS BUY MEDICATED FEED FOR BABY PHEASANTS AND AS TIME GOES ON AND THE LIL PIPS GROW THEY SWITCH TO A GROWER FORMULA WHICH IS LESS COSTLY (REMEMBER THEY HAVE A BOTTOM LINE TOO) AS THEY CONTINUE TO GROW THEY SWITCH TO A CONDITIONER FORMULA ~ AGAIN A TAD LESS EXPENSIVE (AND MORE BOTTOM LINE), THEN EVENTUALLY A MAINTENANCE FORMULA UNTIL THESE CRAZY LIL DARLINGS ARE SOLD AND SHIP OUT TO PARTS UNKNOWN... HOW DOES THIS EFFECT YOU? EASY, IF YOU'RE IN THAT AREA THE WORLD THE REGIONAL FACTORIES FOR THE FEED COMPANIES ARE GEARED TO PROVIDE FEED TO THEIR BIGGEST CLIENTS ~ THE SUPER DUPER LARGE COMMERCIAL PHEASANT FARMS... SOME OF THESE GUYS FEED TONS.. YES MORE THAN 1 TON EACH DAY DURING PEAK SEASON... SO THE FEED COMPANIES ARE SET UP TO PROVIDE THE DESIRED PRODUCT TO THE LARGEST SOURCE OF BUSINESS... IF YOU LIVE IN THE PHEASANT BELT GOOD LUCK TRYING TO OBTAIN A NON MEDICATED STARTER.... SOME OF THESE AREAS CAN ONLY GET STARTER A FEW MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR... WHEN THE BIG BOYZ ARE USING IT.. THEY CANT EVEN GET STARTER YEAR ROUND... SAME IS TRUE OF THE SOUTH EASTERN COAST EXCEPT ITS THE "BOB BELT" THOUGH THE MEDICATION IS USUALLY DIFFERENT.

THIS IS WHY THERE'S ALWAYS SO MUCH HULLABALEW ABOUT MEDICATED VS NON MEDICATED AND HOW CAN I MAKE MY OWN TYPE POSTINGS ON GBS HERE...

THE SIMPLE FACTS:
CAN MEDICATED BE HARMFUL? YES IN THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCE WHICH IS RARE.
CAN MEDICATED BE HELPFUL? YES AGAIN IN THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCE
CAN I FEED IT YEAR ROUND? YES BUT I DONT RECOMMEND IT FOR BUTTONS OR COTS IF IT CAN BE AVOIDED
WILL MY BIRD FALL OVER DEAD IF A PIECE OF MEDICATED FEED TOUCHES ITS BEAK?... UMMM NO
CAN I FEED UNMEDICATED FEED? YOU SURE CAN

BEST ANSWER IS TO RESEARCH IT FOR YOURSELF AND FORM YOUR OWN EDUCATED OPINION FOR YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES... KEEP IN MIND YOU MAY WISH TO CHECK WITH YOUR FEED STORE AND SEE IF YOU EVEN HAVE A CHOICE 1ST..

 

[chickbird]

Well the jury is out on "harmful to the Quail". Google Coccidostats. One of the millers in my area will only sell the medicated as he is concerned that newbies will expose their quail to dirt, or let wild birds have accidental "access" to feed and water (bird flies into or over pen and poops in it, spreading coccidiosis or enteritis causing disease. While they don't PREVENT the disease like a vaccination, it is apparently felt by these companies that it can help control the problem. Look it up on line or look at the website of the food company you choose or HAVE to buy from. Look up the active ingredient or medication listed on the label. Do the homework that most of us have to do to find out what is going into your birds, so that you make informed decisions. We've all been there and made these decisions. I don't think we (IMHO) can tell you why the companies do this and/or if it is harmful to the quail with out published studies to prove such a statement.

I hope this helps.

I don't think that posting the question twice in large letters sort of "at" your fellow helpers and enthusiasts helps us to help you. People do want to let you know their experience here and share. But answering for big Ag. Business as to why? We can't...you must help your situation using study.

Most respectfully,
Tonya

TONYA,
YOUR REMARKS ARE NOT HELPFUL TO ME, THEY ARE RUDE . I HAVE PARALYSIS OF MY HANDS AND I USUALLY TYPE IN ALL UPPER OR ALL LOWER BECAUSE IT IS SO MUCH EASIER FOR ME, ALSO PROBLEMS WITH SIGHT AND THE LARGER LETTERS HELP. IT WOULD BE BETTER TO PM PERSONAL REMARKS AND ASK BEFORE POSTING SOMETHING LIKE THIS. I REALLY WANTED SOME RESPONSES BUT YOUR REPLY TOOK AWAY FROM YOUR POSTING AND FRANKLY I HAVEN'T EXPERIENCED THIS HERE ON THIS WONDERFUL FORUM THAT IS FILLED WITH A WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE, I ALSO DID NOT REALIZE I HAD POSTED TWICE. HAVE A GOOD DAY.

 

[kahlertm]

Well, I apologize most certainly for not knowing that you had accidentally posted twice. I took it more as a serious "some one answer me, as I don't understand why this continues to happen"...And so I offered what I could with what limited experience I have too. I had to do just what I told you when searching for organic feed, or unmedicated. I studied and found a comfortable place with what I can feed my birds. I hope the same for you. I sure wish you knew me and my responses in most other cases, and know that I am a gentle person... with difficulties with my hands typing and my legs walking. I really meant it when I left the pos,t after encouraging you to study with all the rest of us, with the salutation of "most respectfully"...I meant that.

Not sure how to make it better with you other than to say that I will share what I can with anyone here and don't ever mean to hurt even a fly.

I hope you have a good day/eve as well and see me in a different light. I do not like aggressors on forums. I would never want to come off as one. Ever.

Please take away only the worthy info you may find in my post and know that I did mean to help you to study the nutrition labels as well as know that we, as the small farms on BYC, can hardly answer for the big companies. We request from them...food with out antibiotics or chemicals. So we continue to ask and let them know what we want. Maybe some day they will see that we are their consumers and we have a need. Maybe they will step up and fulfill our need.


Wishing you well on your search and the health of your flock and covey,

Tonya

 

[kahlertm]

Well it looks like JJ came to the rescue again. I hope this clears up the question for the other poster who was offended by my suggestions.
You made it all better brother.
Can you tell that this fine man saves lives for a living? He knows when to step in and give people what they need. Thank you JJ for helping us out. What a terrific answer. JJ is one of my faves and has helped to populate my farm with beautiful birds. I trust his words and love his birds!!!!

 

[JJMR794]

WHEN YOU DO ENOUGH LAPS AROUND THIS CRAZY WORLD YOU START TO PICK UP LIL TID BITS OF INFO... ALL COMES DOWN TO TIME AND EXPOSURE REALLY. AS WITH MOST THINGS IN OUR WORLD THERE'S ALWAYS A REASON FOR "WHY?" SOMETHING IS THE WAY IT IS... WE MAY NOT READILY SEE IT, UNDERSTAND IT, OR EVEN AGREE WITH IT.... BUT THE REASON IS THERE IF YOU LOOK LONG ENOUGH AND HARD ENOUGH

 

[Jimsbirdhouse]

WHEN YOU DO ENOUGH LAPS AROUND THIS CRAZY WORLD YOU START TO PICK UP LIL TID BITS OF INFO... ALL COMES DOWN TO TIME AND EXPOSURE REALLY. AS WITH MOST THINGS IN OUR WORLD THERE'S ALWAYS A REASON FOR "WHY?" SOMETHING IS THE WAY IT IS... WE MAY NOT READILY SEE IT, UNDERSTAND IT, OR EVEN AGREE WITH IT.... BUT THE REASON IS THERE IF YOU LOOK LONG ENOUGH AND HARD ENOUGH

If your still having problems with your birds it"s very possible they might have eye worms. I have had this problem so I use Sulmate in the water for 7 days. I think it"s 1 once per gallon, be sure to Change the water each day. You can get the medication at most feedstores. Hope this helps

 

[Tikkajazz94]

If your still having problems with your birds it"s very possible they might have eye worms. I have had this problem so I use Sulmate in the water for 7 days. I think it"s 1 once per gallon, be sure to Change the water each day. You can get the medication at most feedstores. Hope this helps

Thanks, Actually, I was thinking on Culling this poor boy cuz he looks to be suffering. But the cold snap we got today changed that.....