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Tylan 50 for respiratory problems

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by izziebean, Nov 18, 2015.

  1. ChickenCanoe

    ChickenCanoe Chicken Obsessed

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    I would definitely inform her that you suspect her birds may have IB. She may already know it. She may be getting out of the business because of that and if so, it is very irresponsible of her to sell her birds.

    Highly contagious, it will move through the flock in 24-48 hours.

    Your hens that recover will be immune but will be carriers.
    Definitely push the fluids with electrolytes because it can lead to gout because of the kidney damage.
    Their egg quality will likely be different because IB causes permanent ovary damage. When they resume laying, the eggs may be misshapen, soft, thin, rough, ridged shells with thin albumen. They may not lay again.

    It doesn't survive more than a week off the bird. Most any disinfectant will work for the coop.
    You said you have multiple pastures so if that includes multiple housing options, you could house the birds in one building while they recover, clean the other building and move them there after 10 days and disinfect the other building.

    If you aren't particularly attached to your birds, your best course of action would be to cull the flock and start over after thorough disinfection.

    This is another example of the need for quarantine of new birds.
    As far from your flock as possible for as long as possible. Work with your birds first each day before tending to the quarantine area. Use different clothes and shoes and wash up between flocks.
    http://www.desu.edu/sites/default/files/u538/QandI_2 pager.pdf

    http://agriculture.vic.gov.au/agric...ry/quarantine-advice-for-small-poultry-flocks

    This is the point often overlooked in the rush to administer antibiotics.
    Truth is, of all the things that can cause respiratory problems, bacterial ones that can actually be cured with antibiotics are a relatively small percentage of those.
     
  2. izziebean

    izziebean Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I did quarantine for a few days. I probably should have for longer, but the birds that I bought still aren't acting very sick. One of the birds shows no signs whatsoever, but I will admit that the other one has waddles that are a bit faded in color and they move slightly when she breathes. She just laid an egg about an hour ago and the egg was in perfect condition on the outside. The problem with IBV is that they are carriers for life, but probably won't show signs. Even in a month long quarantine, they might not have hinted at anything going on.

    I have to admit that I am still trying to understand this disease. There is conflicting information about it. It's not MG which can be stopped by culling the flock and waiting 3-5 days. The virus can stay in the soil. The virus can be brought into the flock by mice which I have struggled with this summer. I did finally put the coop in the garage up off the floor and put hardware cloth all over so that the mice can't get in. Their living quarters are much cleaner. The virus, though, can live in the soil for six months? I put a question mark there because I actually have no idea. It's all confusing. I'm worried that the ones that have been so sick are going to get re-infected but the vet yesterday said that they should have built up an immunity (if they survive).

    Then there are the silkies who have been in the same coops with the sick birds.. the silkies have shown no signs yet of the disease at all. Bunny is still laying an egg every 36-48 hours (which is her normal laying rate). The two silkie roos are just acting like business as normal. Are they about to get sick or could they all just be carriers now?

    Also, the six 9 week old chicks (silkies, d'uncle, and a polish), they show no signs at all. They've been in the same area, drank from the same water. I've heard this is highly contagious so it seems pointless to keep them completely from the flock. I do separate them out at night and they do get to go play outside if it is warmer than 50 degrees.

    I do not have the heart to cull the flock. I didn't get the chicks for eggs or for meat. For the past five years, I've fought cancer and m.s. The chicks got me outside in the sun and I looked forward to getting up everyday and going outside to play with them in the yard. Paris.. she gave me back 'life' and 'love'. The little stinker... she got into my heart so deep down. She's a chicken! How did that happen?? Okay, now I'm all weepy. It was fun, though. I would garden and they.. well.. would mess up the garden. **laugh** If the three from my original flock survive this IBV, then they are welcome at my house. I had been looking into buying a small farm and just gardening and raising chickens. All of this has me rethinking that I might not be the right person for that life.
     
  3. izziebean

    izziebean Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Since she is about to mail out more birds, I did message her just now and let her know what the preliminary report indicates. I told her that I was not trying to accuse, but just to inform her that the birds might be IBV carriers.

    Also, I don't regret using the Tylan 50 even though this was viral. It might have helped if they had any secondary infections. Oliver, who is now facing the corner, refusing to stand, drink, or eat.. I'm going to push fluids in the hopes that he will eat.

    So if I keep my current flock, then I cannot sell them even once they are healthy because they will infect someone else's flock? And any new birds that I bring in to the flock will likely get the virus?
     
  4. MrsBachbach

    MrsBachbach Chillin' With My Peeps

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    They will likely be carriers. I don't know much about it, but I have read there are different strains of this virus. While active, it can be very contagious, and nearby pens can be infected easily. They do make vaccines for this virus, but like I said there are different strains. You vet can likely tell you what strain and what vaccine you can use (for birds you want to bring in). I've seen the vaccine for sale online at poultry supply sources.
     
  5. ChickenCanoe

    ChickenCanoe Chicken Obsessed

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    I included some links to help you understand the virus. It is the most contagious disease that affects primarily chickens. I don't think mice can carry it. I don't think it remains in the soil. It shouldn't remain viable off the chicken for more than a week but a month would be more prudent. It is extremely aerosol so can travel through the air as much as 100 yards or more.

    I'm confused about 1 thing, do you know which bird/s brought it to your property?


    The word quarantine comes from the Italian word quarantina which means a period of forty days.

    Good move.

    That's my understanding.
    To the best of my knowledge, survivors are carriers. To be on the safe side, it would be best not to introduce new birds even when yours recover.

    http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/p...view_of_infectious_bronchitis_in_poultry.html

    http://www.thepoultrysite.com/diseaseinfo/78/infectious-bronchitis-ib/

    http://www.infectious-bronchitis.com/biosecurity.asp

    Good luck and keep us informed.
     
  6. casportpony

    casportpony Poop Inspector General Premium Member

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    Last edited: Nov 25, 2015
  7. casportpony

    casportpony Poop Inspector General Premium Member

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    This is from another bird with respiratory issues:
    [​IMG]

    Of course none of these drugs mentioned in this post and my last will treat IB, so I'm not suggesting that. What I am trying to show is how important it is to work with a vet to find out what is ailing your birds.

    Look at all the reports and you will see that Tylan (tylosin) wouldn't have worked, which is what many people try first.

    -Kathy
     
    2 people like this.
  8. izziebean

    izziebean Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Hi! Thanks for all the great responses. I am happy to report that all birds are showing improvements. Yesterday, the little ones again got to go outside and play. I even let two of the roosters out for a couple of hours when the temperatures soared to almost 60 degrees.

    I've been doing a lot of reading about IBV. It's interesting because it's a coronovirus which I think is in the same classification as SARS? I don't know. Maybe I should start with things that I have found out. There is a vaccine for the virus, but since there are several different strands.. which are usually located in particular areas (I think three different ones in the u.s.).. it is almost impossible to vaccine for all of the different strains. BUT! vaccination for one might provide some protection against the other. The vaccines are actually live vaccines and are given in 3 stages. Now that my birds have had the infection, they will always have antibodies and we won't have to go through this again.. with these chickens.

    For up to twenty weeks after infection, the chicken can shed the virus. After that, they are okay around other birds. The necropsy report is still just in the preliminary stages, so more problems may be found when the final report is issued. The symptoms of my chickens line up almost exactly with what happened to my birds.. even their suggestions on how to help the chickens survive the virus line up with what we tried here. The vitamins with the electrolytes help a LOT. Making sure they drink and eat even when they are lethargic. The giving of random antibiotics 'could' help if there is any other thing going wrong with their system since the virus hits so hard and fast.

    How did my little flock of birds get the virus? My first birds were acquired in April/May as chicks. Since 20 of the 24 were roosters, I rehomed 16 roosters. That left me with 8 birds.. 4 roos and 4 hens who got along great. Forum posters on here said that ratio of roo to hen was horrible and that I needed to up my hen count because the roosters could over-mate the hens. So I bought 2 buff silkie hens from a local breeder. That was back in July. I kept them quarantined for 30 days and added them to the flock. Everything was fine. I bought 6 baby chicks from MPC sex'd as females. They have been around the others but were not allowed to roam free with them until recently. The other 2 flew in from california from a breeder who I have been a fan of for quite a while. She breeds polish frizzle bantams and her birds are beautiful. She is NPIP certified with closed flocks and has her birds tested every six months. She has never had any kind of an outbreak. She is a member on these forums and has almost 3 thousand posts. I do not see her as nefarious and I think the birds were clean when they left her farm.

    So.. how did my flock get infected? I've narrowed it down to three different ways. 1. My biosecurity sucked. Since my flock free ranges during the day, I wore the same boots around the yard.. in and out of their run.. to the feed store.. everywhere. Those boots are my boots. I could have carried the virus in that way. 2. The mice. My neighborhood has had a horrible infection of mice. I don't think that the mice themselves carry it, but rather the virus can get on their hair and can shed near the chickens. My neighborhood is also full of chicken owners. Since the wind can carry the virus, could have been from them? 3. The new birds. I actually do not believe that the lady I bought the birds from knew that the birds had the virus. In fact, I'm not sure that they did before getting on that flight from California. I actually believe that the truth is that they got the virus from an infected bird on the flight to me. I think one of them got it first and showed little to no symptoms... probably Bridget. They were in a cage far from the other flock but Paris, being the mottled houdan that she is, escaped her pen. I have pictures from that day because I thought it was 'cute' that she was so interested in the new girls. It had been 10 days? I would have to check the photos. Paris died within a week of that picture. She probably had symptoms for 2-3 days but was either hiding them or I just didn't see them as that harmful since she was molting and it was getting cold. The day before she died was a very cold day and I think the virus just hit her poor little body so hard. Had I known how to push fluids, I do think I could have saved her (unless the report says that her kidneys shut down then nothing could have saved her). After that, the virus was just everywhere. Even with good biosecurity and a full 40 days of quarantine, I'm not sure I could have prevented the disaster. Not buying the chickens and having them shipped.. that would have prevented it. Having them shipped, quarantined, and tested.. that would have helped. Cost of the test? $3. I am now learning where and how to have birds tested. I have contacted the lady who does the NPIP in my state. I'm hoping to learn more about testing, how to get testing, etc etc.

    If this only turns out to be IBV, then I feel lucky. MG would have been worse. I do think that these birds can eventually be integrated with other birds and won't be contagious.. but not for months. The virus is not transmitted vertically to their eggs. The virus is not transmitted to humans; but, interestingly, the human body can develop antibodies to the virus if the humans are exposed.
     
  9. ChickenCanoe

    ChickenCanoe Chicken Obsessed

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    Good write up and very introspective. Good for you for getting a necropsy.
     
  10. izziebean

    izziebean Chillin' With My Peeps

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    The birds have been getting more and more healthy everyday. We've had snow and 10 degree weather outside. This has caused the garage to be a bit colder but the birds seem to be tolerating the lower temps (probably about 60 degrees in there with the heat vent open and one heat lamp). They sleep all cuddled up and it's kind of cute.

    I did come home and found all 4 of my roosters doing a new head shake. Three were doing it in unison and it almost looked they were bobbing their heads to a beat. The fourth one started in on it too. I look over at my hens and notice a couple of them shaking their heads. There is about a 10 second gap between head shake. I'm think either there is some fluid from the infection or maybe they need to be dewormed? Oh gosh, they have been through so much.

    The vet did say that Paris did look thin. The polish boys who seem to have been the sickest throughout this ordeal look much thinner than a couple of weeks ago. Maybe they do have worms? They were eating earthworms out of the garden all summer. Wouldn't that have shown up on the preliminary necropsy? Of course, it's the weekend and I can't call the vet. Any suggestions for treatment or something to look for?

    TL;DR: Chickens shaking heads. Safe treatment for worms?
     

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