Unemployment almost 10% nationally

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
You don't understand because you're home schooled and you buy in to a lot of stuff like that. You think that you are very well versed because you read books that reinforce your opinions. It's sad that people feel that way about higher education. I can understand feeling that it shouldn't be supported by the public dime but to say that it is useless as you and WZ are saying is just plain ignorant. yeah I've heard the diploma and 50 cents thing before. Coming from liberal arts majors. Liberal arts started out as the degree that wealthy people's daughters got, so they could keep up with their well bred husbands friends at parties. Then it was commonly used during Viet Nam to keep those kids with parents that had some money from having to serve. That's why Viet Nam was fought mostly by poor kids.

College is a requirement to survive now. Even people that have a fantastic entrepreneurial streak need college. Hard physical work doesn't get you nothing but tired muscles these days. I agree that most liberal arts majors won't earn much money. Some people don't want to earn a lot of money. Some are happy helping others, teachers come to mind. Please spare me the "College is a waste routine". The people that usually say that are the ones with a HS or less degree. That's where I'm at. I do quite well. However people in my job require a college degree now. Oh I almost forgot. The other people that say that, are the ones with degrees that don't want everyone else to have one. Does that attitude sound familiar at all.

Never said it was a waste. I just said I don't quite get why we're so obsessed with college. You "need" it only because people think you aren't educated enough if you don't go through it. I certainly haven't required an official college education to hold my own against college-educated adults. Do with that what you will.


And by the way (how many times do I need to explain this?), I read plenty of books, articles, etc. that do NOT reinforce my views, so PLEASE, for Heaven's sake, STOP using that one!

Just because you read them doesn't mean you are absorbing them. I can see your side of a lot of the debates you have presented. You can't understand mine. Do with that what you will.

You're right that most of the jobs that require an degree now don't really need it. Of course you could be self taught in a lot of professions. After all school is nothing more than reading and listening to lectures then regurgitating it. However it also lets you absorb some real life experience that you can't get from books. It's just like my job. I've been doing it for 15 years. Other companies doing the same kind of business hire kids straight out of school. They pay them half of what I make and send them to school for 6 months. Then they let them lose. They don't know a thing about what is really happening in the field. They have to fight constantly to get anything done. After about 5 years they have absorbed enough actual knowledge to do their job in a productive manner.

It's called real life. You may not like it but it's a fact. Don't want to hurt your ego but at 17 you may hold your own in a debate with a college educated adult that doesn't really care as much as you. Wait till you get in the real world. you are in for an awakening.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
Never said it was a waste. I just said I don't quite get why we're so obsessed with college. You "need" it only because people think you aren't educated enough if you don't go through it. I certainly haven't required an official college education to hold my own against college-educated adults. Do with that what you will.


And by the way (how many times do I need to explain this?), I read plenty of books, articles, etc. that do NOT reinforce my views, so PLEASE, for Heaven's sake, STOP using that one!

Just because you read them doesn't mean you are absorbing them. I can see your side of a lot of the debates you have presented. You can't understand mine. Do with that what you will.

You're right that most of the jobs that require an degree now don't really need it. Of course you could be self taught in a lot of professions. After all school is nothing more than reading and listening to lectures then regurgitating it. However it also lets you absorb some real life experience that you can't get from books. It's just like my job. I've been doing it for 15 years. Other companies doing the same kind of business hire kids straight out of school. They pay them half of what I make and send them to school for 6 months. Then they let them lose. They don't know a thing about what is really happening in the field. They have to fight constantly to get anything done. After about 5 years they have absorbed enough actual knowledge to do their job in a productive manner.

It's called real life. You may not like it but it's a fact. Don't want to hurt your ego but at 17 you may hold your own in a debate with a college educated adult that doesn't really care as much as you. Wait till you get in the real world. you are in for an awakening.

I understand your side perfectly well, thank you. I just find it lacking, is all.

You certainly gave me some serious thought material in that WWII debate we had.

As for experience, well, yeah, it's a little necessary for work. College doesn't get you the experience, though, the work does. So back to my previous point - if someone is properly motivated, what besides our culture's obsession with it makes college necessary?

 

[Dunkopf]

I caught a break with my job. I wouldn't be able to get it now. The requirement is at least a 4 years degree now. It may be an obsession but it is also a fact. I have never agreed with it. Much like I don't agree that people with good credit and a couple tickets can get a better auto insurance quote than someone with a perfect driving record and avg credit. It's just the way things are.

By the way. Things are the same in all developed nations. As for geniuses. The people that live in other countries and get sent to school by their government. Those are the people that China used to develop the worlds fastest computer. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 49x as fast as our best.

Sorry, your argument is very lacking on this one.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
You didn't address a single thing that I said.

Glad we agree on the rather absurd obsession with degrees, though.

Speaking of which, you should also check out Outliers. It's not on the topic of college, but it's a fascinating (and thought-provoking) read on things common in the lives of successful people. Only book I've ever read with no bias. Unfortunately, I don't remember the author's name.

 

[RabbitMage]

Quote:
If your college doesn't give you anything other than book learning, you're going to the wrong college OR you're not taking advantage of all that college has to offer.

 

[Alabama ee]

Quote:
You didn't address a single thing that I said.

Glad we agree on the rather absurd obsession with degrees, though.

Speaking of which, you should also check out Outliers. It's not on the topic of college, but it's a fascinating (and thought-provoking) read on things common in the lives of successful people. Only book I've ever read with no bias. Unfortunately, I don't remember the author's name.

Q9, college gives our society a way to test and observe someone in a way that is measurable.

There are folks out there who knew a great deal about the subject they will be studying in college. My son knew a great deal about programming before he ever had a formal course. (He was also home schooled by the way.) He could program before he ever took a formal course in college. However, he LOVES College and has learned a great deal, not only in programming, but in so many areas. He is now in his second year and is Student Government president of his college and is making straight “A”s.

One thing I think you might find interesting is that home schooled students do very well in college. On average, they seem to do much better than their peers.I am glad you are going Q9. I think you just might enjoy it

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
You didn't address a single thing that I said.

Glad we agree on the rather absurd obsession with degrees, though.

Speaking of which, you should also check out Outliers. It's not on the topic of college, but it's a fascinating (and thought-provoking) read on things common in the lives of successful people. Only book I've ever read with no bias. Unfortunately, I don't remember the author's name.

Q9, college gives our society a way to test and observe someone in a way that is measurable.

There are folks out there who knew a great deal about the subject they will be studying in college. My son knew a great deal about programming before he ever had a formal course. (He was also home schooled by the way.) He could program before he ever took a formal course in college. However, he LOVES College and has learned a great deal, not only in programming, but in so many areas. He is now in his second year and is Student Government president of his college and is making straight “A”s.

One thing I think you might find interesting is that home schooled students do very well in college. On average, they seem to do much better than their peers.I am glad you are going Q9. I think you just might enjoy it

I've read the same stats on home schoolers that go to college. I think it helps to round out their life experience before entering the competitive working world. There's a lot of kids that go to public school that just automatically go to college. They look at it as party time instead of a learning experience. My daughter paid her own way through college through scholarships, grants and loans. She was always amazed at the trust fund babies and their attitude towards school. I think most home schoolers come from families that have to scrape to get their kids through school or the kids pay their own way. It's like the difference between a kid who's parents buy their car and pay all the expenses as opposed to the kid that worked for their car and pays their own insurance and maintenance. There tends to be a difference in the way they take care of their car. Obviously this is not always the case, but quite often is. Most of the kids in college that just party are trust fund babies.

If you go in to politics Q, I hope you keep your ideological attitude and don't do like most politicians. You should change your name though.

 

[Royd]

Quote:
I disagree. As stated earlier, Lumber barons harvested the trees. They did not replant or replenish the soil of the crop removed from our land.. They just made a large profit. Same with Cattlemen on and on. Indeed the businesses find safe haven from thugs and invading nations??? WHY? Because we the people lay down our lives as veterans and policemen to protect the nations security so they fat corporations can grow fatter.. We the tax paying public pick up the tab too...... THEY DO NOT OWE US..???

Also your example of hauling the feed is perfect. Yes we all start some where.... Now what if hauling that feed is done at your families business? Not at Purina mills or bags of GMO soy at Monsanto.. By hauling the feed you are learning your business from ground up. You are being paid little but learning much that you know you can apply to grow the family business later.
Very very different than when working for a multi national hey? They will just break your back and give you a kick in the behind when done with you...

Not to generalize but look at immigrant cultures that stuck to the family business concept. The Chinese with laundry mats for example. They are not on wealfar, they are not in jail.. Children help out with the business, which they will run one day..

SO phase out the Multi nationals and phase in small local independently owned businesses.. After all it is WE THE PEOPLES, Government, land, natural resources and the blood that has been spilled to protect it..................................................

Stop being enslaved by the politicians that fill you full of horse pucky, with fearful threats that if we do not serve multinational corps everything they want on a silver platter there will be no jobs.

... BULL... Simple supply and demand economics.. But on a local and regional scale. Keep the money in the family..

It is so sad we lost this as a nation... No actually it make me angry...

"I have been workin in the coal mine.. Another day older and deeper in debt...I owe my soul to the company store"

Is in not the time to change the tune?

I work for myself and by myself, generally, unless a friend needs a helping hand. I consider myself an artisan, in pretty much whatever I put my hand to...Am I ever going to get rich, doing that? Not likely. And why not? Well, let's take painting a house, start to finish. Pressure washing, scraping, prime, caulk, and paint....It is in peoples' minds that a painter should be paid very little for their skills, and therefore, they balk, when you quote a price that looks like $20- $30 an hour.
Yet, they would gladly go to a certified business, with an office and staff, trucks and crews, and fork over considerably more, to do the same job. I've seen it, time and again.
Somehow, it gives them satisfaction, knowing that the person doing the actual work, is getting paid peanuts, regardless of his skill level.

So, until the average joe homeowner is willing to fork over a decent price for the independent contractor, and support him, in spite of the cheaper price offered by the huge store, nothing is going to change....It's your move. Boycott every store, which keeps the little man at the bottom.
ON

 

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

OK Let's let Warren Buffett chime on one this issue.

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/warren-buffett-read-lips-raise-taxes/story?id=12199889

"People like me should be paying more taxes. "

"Trickle down economics does not work."

Pretty clear language.




As some one who does teach college I clearly have opinions about colleges uses and its uselessness. I also have opinions about students who come to college home schooled versus not. Some of my homeschooled students really suffered in college. If they had been homes schooled due to a strict ideology, then they had often not gotten the ability to critically interpret conflicting data or to make up their own minds. (Had a student who had been homeschooled by a very strict parent team who maintained total control over all input including a very strict vegan macrobiotic diet. The kid had never even had pizza or ice cream. He got to college and went berserk. He eventually evened out, but it was a painful and expensive journey.)
But, I have had others who have been taught classical critical thinking. Logic in its truest form. They are a joy to teach, challenging and a great deal of fun.

So I question. How is it that people are struggling to grasp the difference between success and illegal behavior??
Much of what Wal-Mart does is unethical and abhorrent, but it is rarely illegal.
What Microsoft did on many occasions was illegal. There is winning out over competition on your merits and then there is illegally preventing any competition from having access to the free market. That is a monopoly. It really is not that hard to understand, but if you want the finer points then do read the judgment. It is laid out clearly as legality can be in there.


Most of America works for small business actually. Major corporations are a serious contender, don't get me wrong. And, we should not paint them all as evil doers or some such silliness. Just recognize that a corporation as a bureaucratic institution exists to create profit. It is immortal. It is amoral (I did NOT say immoral) It is similar to a shark. Sharks are not evil, they are simply trying to survive and they are very good at it. But, they do not make note of long term planning. They don't worry about their environment, they don't think, "Gee if I eat the guy who feeds me maybe I won't get fed." People within them who try to buck the trends end up replaced by those who will go along...

And multi=national corporations are beholden to no one. No shareholders really have enough clout since they are not so much owners anymore but funds, no country can hold them accountable since they can threaten too much..... Just a thought.

 

[Q9]

Quote:

I have no idea why, but that struck me funny.