Unknown content in chicken excrement? Thoughts? WORM TREATMENT WITH 99% PURE POWDERED FENBENDAZOLE

[Ted Brown]

We did our first dose of fenbendazole this morning; administered orally to the twelve 4 mo olds using a 3cc syringe with .5ml & .1 markings.

We mixed the fenben with 6 cc of yogurt&water for the twelve. We previously weighed both a cockerel @ 5lbs and a pullet at 3 lbs; with 7 pullets and 5 cockerels the total is 46 lbs. Using a low dose assumption of .18mg/ml for both Safeguard and Panacur and the differences in purity (10% vs 99%) a dosage of .018mg/ml per pound of bird of 99% pure fenbendazole is required; so .836 grams to be mixed with the 6cc of yogurt&water.

We did the mixture the evening before. Powdered fenbendazole appears to dissolve with the yogurt&water mixture after 10-15 minutes of thorough stirring. However, it separated overnight and required a thorough shaking to remix.

The process of capturing and administering to the twelve took about an hour. I have 30 birds in the coop and roosts over and under the drop boards (the integration area for new chicks) and the twelve were spread 4 on top and 8 underneath. I had to crawl in and out of the integration area which accounted for probably half the time. We started at 6am while still dark.

Tomorrow we will do the 30 birds and will need to start earlier. We will administer on each of five days.

FWIW I calculated the cost per gram of fenbendazole for each of the following:

​ ​ ​ ​ gms fenben​ $/gm​ Panacur​ $16.99​ ​ 25gms​ 2.5​ $6.80​ Safeguard​ $39.99​ 125ml​ 106.5gms​ 10.65​ $3.75​ Fenben​ $68.00​ ​ 25gms​ 24.75​ $2.75​ Fenben​ $164.00​ ​ 100gms​ 99​ $1.66​

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Pricing is before taxes and taken from Tractor Supply for Panacur and Safeguard and from Fenben LAB for the two sizes of fenbendazole.

PLEASE NOTE I AM NOT KNOWLEDGEABLE REGARDING CHICKEN ALIMENTS NOR MEDICATION DOSING. I DID A LOT OF RESEARCH ON MULTIPLE SITES FOR BASIC INFORMATION. I COULD NOT FIND RELIABLE SPECIFICS OF THE QUANTITY OF FENBEN TO BE CONSIDERED "LOW DOSE" AND THEREFORE NOT REQUIRING DISPOSAL OF THE EGGS.

 

[Ponypoor]

I have a round worm issue, showing in droppings so likely a heavy infestation. That is my preoccupation at the moment; I plan to do an immediate deworm of the entire flock and a first fecal test in 3 months.

I have 32 birds: two extra roos in a separate cage; the rest together as 18 (one Chantecler roo, 18 mo old) 3 year olds and 12 Chantecler (6 & 6) 4 mo old chicks.

I did not buy either Safeguard or Panacur rather 99% pure powder from Fenben LAB, cannot find a specific post that gives a gram or ml dose size. Since both the others are 10% fenbendazle it follows that I should use only 10% of 99% pure powder. I want a low dose (.25ml/mg per lb is most often stated for Safeguard) so am assuming .18mg is a low dose for my calculation:

.1*.18 = .018mg/lb

I will do 5 daily doses followed by 5 doses 10 days later.

I have a mixed flock. Smaller birds average 4lbs I guess (I will verify); 12 of 18 are 4 mo old chicks, an average of 4lb is close. I will dose my Chantecler roo for 8lbs, two other roos at 7lbs and five mature hens for 5lbs.

My estimation is:
12 three year olds = 11*4 = 44lbs
12 four mo olds = 12*4 = 48lbs
5 mature hens = 5*5 = 25 lbs
1 Chantecler roo = 8lbs
2 other roos = 2*7 = 14lbs

Total = 139 lbs

139*.018 = 2.502 grams of 99% fenbendazole per flock dose.

I plan to mix fenben with yogourt on a 1:2 ration but need to verify i can apply through smoothly a .5ml/33cc syringe case.

I am vacillating between individual oral applications vs concentrated feeding using a yogourt/fenben mix. The batch feed approach would be preferred but have not yet figured out how to ensure an appropriate dose per bird even if I divide into two groups of 18 and 12.

If I use the individual dose approach I will remove from the roost one by one, dose and then put each bird into the run. Fortunately have my sister here to assist.

If I use the batch feed approach I will remove food overnight and feed the fenben/yogourt to the main flock of 18 separately from the 12 four month olds, starting before we get our first morning light.

If anyone sees an error in my dosage mix assumptions or has suggestions re approach or handling of the birds I would appreciate.

I have come to understand the reluctance of folks to get too specific with specific "medical" recommendations; thanks to @Ponypoor

I apologize if I have confused the issue. As a fellow Canadian I figured I would try to help with what has taken me 3 yrs to learn as I wade through the legal and non legal use of meds here in Canada. Where to find them, alternatives etc…

I see you have started your deworming process and I sincerely wish you much success, though I am sure you’re doing an eggcellent job - at the end of the day we all want what’s best for our chooks, and it shows that you are an eggcellent chicken keeper.

Again sincerely apologize.

 

[Ted Brown]

I apologize if I have confused the issue. As a fellow Canadian I figured I would try to help with what has taken me 3 yrs to learn as I wade through the legal and non legal use of meds here in Canada. Where to find them, alternatives etc…

I see you have started your deworming process and I sincerely wish you much success, though I am sure you’re doing an eggcellent job - at the end of the day we all want what’s best for our chooks, and it shows that you are an eggcellent chicken keeper.

Again sincerely apologize.

Absolutely no need to apologize.

When the responses to my posts on the dosing issue stopped I was surprised, it was only after your post that I realized that folks were probably concerned at offering medical specifics.

I continued my research without much further success and, at the end, was left to do my own calculations regarding dosage. I hope I have not made any errors.

I made my last post to try to leave some 'thought prints" for others who might tread down the same path.

Again, not to worry I appreciated your information and posts.

 

[Ted Brown]

De-worming process round 1 is completed. Six days in total, up at 5am to be able to pluck each bird off the roosts without too much chasing.

As this was our first experience with oral application of meds we started with a trial run of the 12 4+ month old group. The coop was still set up with the integration area under the drop boards and, of course, they scattered into the further corner meaning was I crawling back and forth over damp and dirty bedding.

I was very fortunate to have my sister and BIL to assist. On the second night, with all 30 birds to go, I started with Wilfred my Chantecler rooster and then worked my way through the flock. My job was to fetch and carry, Susan did the oral injection into the mouths and Bill held a light and manned the coop door as I came and went. Same crappy crawl to get the 12 4+ month olds. The whole process took just over an hour.

This time I resolved to make things easier. I removed the HC panel that closes off the area under the drop boards and then removed all the bedding from that area (the main coop bedding is dry and mostly "clean"). Two benefits arose, most of the 12 completed their migration to the roost area and capturing each one became much easier.

We continued this process over a 6 day period, the main flock got 5 doses while the youngsters got six. I also increased the dosage as I had re-read the posts from @casportpony that clarified a .25ml dose of Safeguard was approved as the low dose no egg withdrawal method.

We also got better at the process and managed to get down to 50 odd minutes for all 30. I found the process a bit stressful; up at 5am six days running to capture squawking and flapping chickens will do that to one. While anything is possible how one person could do this on their own would be a challenge and take quite a bit longer!

I am now debating the second round, recommended 30 days later and, again, for 5 consecutive days. Current thinking is I will track down a lab and submit a droppings sample for fecal testing 3 weeks from now, will do the 2nd round if called for.

 

[Ted Brown]

@casportpony @Wyorp Rock @Kiki

My sister still inspects the droppings for worms daily. At present some worms present but diminished. She will continue until her departure on Nov. 4th.

For how long should I still see worms in their droppings? If they continue to be present I assume I should absolutely repeat the process after 30 days?

 

[Ted Brown]

I completed the flock de-worming 6 days ago.

I had read that worms can impact egg laying, assumed that meant a decrease while the worms were present. In my case egg production has decreased since the de-worming process, now getting 2-4 eggs from 17 hens down from 8-11 per day.

The 5am de-worming process was invasive; each bird taken off their roost, an oral "injection" of a yogurt+fenben mix and then transfer to the run. Reasonable to assume that this may have disrupted their egg laying, also worth noting most of the flock is 3+ years old and now almost winter with decreased daylight hours.

The age of the flock was on my mind when I decided to introduce new pullets on an annual basis. As a result I have a group of twelve, now almost 5 month olds, with 7 pullets coming of egg laying age. I hatched in June expecting their egg laying to begin in December. The 5 males are now being transferred to a separate "bachelor cage" to avoid the conflicts that too many roos create.