Unofficial Poll- What comes first, the chicken, or the egg?

[Sapphire Sebright]

Don't get mixed up in a religious/scientific debate... don't get mixed up in it... dooooooonnnnn't... just walk away... don't....

Where did the "matter" that made the explosion come from, from the scientific point of view ?

My question, exactly. Something cannot be made from nothing, so where did the "something" come from?
By the same token, of course, one could question where God came from. The answer, or the closest thing to it, as far as I can tell, is that He has always been there. He is absolute, eternal, and forever. Everything began with Him, and everything will end the same way -- at least, this is what I believe, and what I'm sure many other Christians believe, as well.
We question where things come from, yes -- it is in our nature to question things, as we are curious creatures. But there are some things that are beyond our comprehension. When did "time" start? How long is "eternity?" And so on. They are confusing questions, ones that give me a headache and queasy guts when I think about them too much, and to some, they don't really have an answer, as far as I can tell.
But I'm fine with it. There are definitely things that we will never understand, and that I will never understand, either (men make no sense! ), but I've pretty much accepted it. I don't need to know the answers to these questions, personally, and I hope that those who do want to know can find something satisfactory.

Well, shizzle sticks and Jiminy Cricket -- I'm in it now!
Sorry if I offended anyone with this.

 

[Sapphire Sebright]

I need to sign off before I get in too deep. Bye, guys! Have fun, and remember to play nicely! I hope that you all enjoy talking about this, and please don't get too offended -- no one is trying to offend anyone else; we just have different opinions about this stuff.
Night-night!

 

[ChocolateMouse]

My question, exactly. Something cannot be made from nothing, so where did the "something" come from?
By the same token, of course, one could question where God came from. The answer, or the closest thing to it, as far as I can tell, is that He has always been there. He is absolute, eternal, and forever. Everything began with Him, and everything will end the same way -- at least, this is what I believe, and what I'm sure many other Christians believe, as well.

Yeah but...

Just take literally all of what you just said and replace "God/He" with "The universe" and you've got your answer.

Something can't be made from nothing but your god is "something" that came from "nothing". Why can't the universe be something that came from nothing? What's stopping it? Why can't it just have always existed in some form or another eternal and forever?

It's kind of beyond us right now, huh? Everything just kind of exists and it seems like there's no right answers to that question. At least not yet. And there's not a soul in the scientific world who will claim to definitely have the answer, just some good guesses.

But. There is a right answer to if eggs evolved before chickens.

 

[Sapphire Sebright]

Yeah but...

Just take literally all of what you just said and replace "God/He" with "The universe" and you've got your answer.

Something can't be made from nothing but your god is "something" that came from "nothing". Why can't the universe be something that came from nothing? What's stopping it? Why can't it just have always existed in some form or another eternal and forever?

It's kind of beyond us right now, huh? Everything just kind of exists and it seems like there's no right answers to that question. At least not yet.

True, I suppose.
Perhaps you could say that to me, being Christian has pretty easily answered these questions, as far as I can tell, as well as your version does. That, and the whole, "someone to turn to when all and everyone else has left you," part. Comfort and answers, all in one package!
I've never been in a debate like this before -- it seems interesting.

 

[Mouthpear]

My chick always comes first, I make sure of that.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

True, I suppose.
Perhaps you could say that to me, being Christian has pretty easily answered these questions, as far as I can tell, as well as your version does. That, and the whole, "someone to turn to when all and everyone else has left you," part. Comfort and answers, all in one package!
I've never been in a debate like this before -- it seems interesting.

It's a very soothing philosophy for some people, I'll grant you that. My experience with it was DECIDEDLY less than soothing.
Combined with much of the rest of it panning out as largely weird and unreliable and even within the book itself saying that man writes stuff into "Gods" laws that are really just "Mans" laws, Christianity itself is not terribly useful for me. But I *do* think faith is useful and positive in general. I think it's a REALLY important tool, if you don't take it too literally. I follow a religion too, I just don't literally think the stories are real as-told, I think they're metaphors and guideposts. And MANY Christian scientists exist and they both believe in god and know evolution is real.

In fact there was a point in time when the churches of all sorts were the biggest research bodies in the world and discovered many fundamental facts about our universe. It was a Christian that disproved things like spontaneous generation. Darwin himself was Christian and though he saw for himself that evolution was real, he believed that God was - in his words - the First Cause.

But the difference between the answers I want and the answers ANY church gives boils down to asking one thing. Do YOU believe in trash cans? And I sincerely hope you answer. It's a bit of a thought experiment.

 

[Sapphire Sebright]

It's a very soothing philosophy for some people, I'll grant you that. My experience with it was DECIDEDLY less than soothing.
Combined with much of the rest of it panning out as largely weird and unreliable and even within the book itself saying that man writes stuff into "Gods" laws that are really just "Mans" laws, Christianity itself is not terribly useful for me. But I *do* think faith is useful and positive in general. I think it's a REALLY important tool, if you don't take it too literally. I follow a religion too, I just don't literally think the stories are real as-told, I think they're metaphors and guideposts. And MANY Christian scientists exist and they both believe in god and know evolution is real.

In fact there was a point in time when the churches of all sorts were the biggest research bodies in the world and discovered many fundamental facts about our universe. It was a Christian that disproved things like spontaneous generation. Darwin himself was Christian and though he saw for himself that evolution was real, he believed that God was - in his words - the First Cause.

But the difference between the answers I want and the answers ANY church gives boils down to asking one thing. Do YOU believe in trash cans? And I sincerely hope you answer. It's a bit of a thought experiment.

... Trash cans? I mean, there's one in the kitchen, so... unless that's something else in disguise, yeah. And if I can't trust a trash can, well....
I'm sorry if I'm a little weird at the moment -- it is almost two-thirty in the morning here, so I'm a tad tired.
One thing that I would like to say quickly, though: Out of genuine curiosity, what do you find "useful" about the religion that you're a part of right now? I guess that, personally, I find Christianity "useful" in that I believe that at can lead me to salvation and save me from the flames of Hell, but is that not what most religions are for -- to give people hope and faith in a better life after death? I am not trying to offend or seem offended -- I'm just curious about how your religion differs from mine; what is more "useful" about it.

 

[Sapphire Sebright]

Something tells me that I'm going to re-read my posts in the morning, and I'm going to be kicking myself while blushing in embarrassment.

 

[Sapphire Sebright]

Okay, I'm really going now. This had been interesting, ChocolateMouse -- very thought-provoking and curious, and I would like to thank you for not ridiculing or insulting my beliefs and instead bantering back and forth in a friendly, agreeable manner.
Good night to you, and to everyone else. Perhaps I'll come back tomorrow and talk some more.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

... Trash cans? I mean, there's one in the kitchen, so... unless that's something else in disguise, yeah. And if I can't trust a trash can, well....
I'm sorry if I'm a little weird at the moment -- it is almost two-thirty in the morning here, so I'm a tad tired.
One thing that I would like to say quickly, though: Out of genuine curiosity, what do you find "useful" about the religion that you're a part of right now? I guess that, personally, I find Christianity "useful" in that I believe that at can lead me to salvation and save me from the flames of Hell, but is that not what most religions are for -- to give people hope and faith in a better life after death? I am not trying to offend or seem offended -- I'm just curious about how your religion differs from mine; what is more "useful" about it.

I don't think you'll be embarrassed. And yeah, it's 2:30AM here too. But I have a sleep disorder.

Right. So you yourself can see that there's a trash can there. It's in your kitchen. Its presence in your kitchen, and in your senses (you can see it, walk up to it, touch it, smell it (ew) ), and our social construct of how we use it, determine that it's a trash can and it's there. It was a trash can yesterday, and unless something happens it's going to be nearly the exact same trash can tomorrow.

Now.... Do you believe in goblins on the astral plane that light tiny fires on objects because they dislike them moving?

As for your other question; I think I'll send it to you in PM. I think it's a wee bit too personal/off topic for this particular discussion. It's not even like, adjacent.