Unofficial Poll- What comes first, the chicken, or the egg?

What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

  • The chicken!

    Votes: 21 38.9%
  • The egg!

    Votes: 16 29.6%
  • Other explanation

    Votes: 6 11.1%
  • I have no idea!

    Votes: 2 3.7%
  • The rooster?

    Votes: 9 16.7%

  • Total voters
    54

Sapphire Sebright

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I don't think you'll be embarrassed. And yeah, it's 2:30AM here too. But I have a sleep disorder. :p

Right. So you yourself can see that there's a trash can there. It's in your kitchen. Its presence in your kitchen, and in your senses (you can see it, walk up to it, touch it, smell it (ew) ), and our social construct of how we use it, determine that it's a trash can and it's there. It was a trash can yesterday, and unless something happens it's going to be nearly the exact same trash can tomorrow.

Now.... Do you believe in goblins on the astral plane that light tiny fires on objects because they dislike them moving?

As for your other question; I think I'll send it to you in PM. I think it's a wee bit too personal/off topic for this particular discussion. It's not even like, adjacent.
Ah, okay -- I didn't mean to ask such a personal question, and I'm sorry if I made you uncomfortable.
Never heard the goblin thing before, but I get what you're saying -- it isn't solid, it isn't real, it can't be touched; what is there to prove that it exists?
A fair question, really -- but what says that air exists? Or the "nothingness" of space? You can't "see" space, yet it exists, right?
Honestly, I went off to do a bit of writing, and then got sucked in, so it is now almost five, and I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your answer.
... Also, did I ask a question, then get answered with a question, then answer that question with a question?
How questionable.
Anyway, good night.
 

ChocolateMouse

Free Ranging
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Ah, okay -- I didn't mean to ask such a personal question, and I'm sorry if I made you uncomfortable.
Never heard the goblin thing before, but I get what you're saying -- it isn't solid, it isn't real, it can't be touched; what is there to prove that it exists?
A fair question, really -- but what says that air exists? Or the "nothingness" of space? You can't "see" space, yet it exists, right?
Honestly, I went off to do a bit of writing, and then got sucked in, so it is now almost five, and I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your answer.
... Also, did I ask a question, then get answered with a question, then answer that question with a question?
How questionable.
Anyway, good night.
Not uncomfortable. I'm an open book TBH. Just not super appropriate for the thread. XD

As for my point, well, not quite.
Air - we CAN experience air. We can LITERALLY feel it. If we use a lens we can look at particles of it. And actually.... Space, the funny thing about that is space is not empty. It's FULL of things we can detect! Radio waves and dark matter and higgs bososns and hadrons protons and electrons and quarks and light itself bouncing about and flying across the sky. Because, of course, not seeing or even not experiencing something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've never seen or experienced the country of China but I still think it's there.

I assume you believe radio waves and various particles like protons or radiation exist even though you can't directly experience them. So... Why, then, do you not believe in friction goblins?
 

BigBlueHen53

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;) Funny you should ask that!

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/10/981001080637.htm
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52019468
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/world/animal-ancestor-ikaria-scn/index.html

The chicken is somewhere in between maggot and human in norse mythology. They're in there, just kind of glossed over as part of animals.

I mean, gods and giants and such are not physical "beings" as we perceive them any more than you can point to a physical christian god. :p They're much more representative of natural and social forces in our universe. But the first physical beings that could see and feel and experience were worms.

It's worth noting that despite being huge and being all of the matter that makes up the universe, Mimir is NOT a Giant. The Giants are a specific thing and not really made of matter.
Interesting, Mouse, thanks.
 

Sapphire Sebright

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Not uncomfortable. I'm an open book TBH. Just not super appropriate for the thread. XD

As for my point, well, not quite.
Air - we CAN experience air. We can LITERALLY feel it. If we use a lens we can look at particles of it. And actually.... Space, the funny thing about that is space is not empty. It's FULL of things we can detect! Radio waves and dark matter and higgs bososns and hadrons protons and electrons and quarks and light itself bouncing about and flying across the sky. Because, of course, not seeing or even not experiencing something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've never seen or experienced the country of China but I still think it's there.

I assume you believe radio waves and various particles like protons or radiation exist even though you can't directly experience them. So... Why, then, do you not believe in friction goblins?
But the spaces between those particles? Between the atoms and molecules? What is there? I believe that there are teeny-tiny particles that make up all of the elements and such in the universe, but what is between them? Nothingness? What is it made of? What makes and defines, "nothing?"
And while we're asking questions, how on earth did we get from asking which came first, a chicken or an egg, to here?
(Personally, I'm not sure which came first. I just say, "whichever one God said so," frankly. Not sure that we'll ever really know for certain....)
 

BigBlueHen53

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Okay, this is the thing about radiohaloes. Disclaimer: I am neither a scientist nor a geologist, but my DH shared this with me and I found it fascinating. Conventional thinking is that granite is an igneous rock formed by volcanic lava that cools slowly and today, that's true. But there is some granite that contains microscopic remnants of evidence of radioactive isotopes that appear frozen in time, as if the granite was formed instantaneously. It's as if you put a soda in the freezer and the bubbles were frozen in place. The half-life of these isotopes is so short that they would have disappeared unless the rock solidified instantly. Which, of course, it doesn't. But it did. At creation, when God spoke and it was. And also during the Great Flood (Genesis 7). Some of these isotopes' half-lives are measured in microseconds. Link follows.

Https://www.icr.org/article/radiohalos-natures-tiny-mysteries
 

BigBlueHen53

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Don't get mixed up in a religious/scientific debate... don't get mixed up in it... dooooooonnnnn't... just walk away... don't....


My question, exactly. Something cannot be made from nothing, so where did the "something" come from?
By the same token, of course, one could question where God came from. The answer, or the closest thing to it, as far as I can tell, is that He has always been there. He is absolute, eternal, and forever. Everything began with Him, and everything will end the same way -- at least, this is what I believe, and what I'm sure many other Christians believe, as well.
We question where things come from, yes -- it is in our nature to question things, as we are curious creatures. But there are some things that are beyond our comprehension. When did "time" start? How long is "eternity?" And so on. They are confusing questions, ones that give me a headache and queasy guts when I think about them too much, and to some, they don't really have an answer, as far as I can tell.
But I'm fine with it. There are definitely things that we will never understand, and that I will never understand, either (men make no sense! 🤣), but I've pretty much accepted it. I don't need to know the answers to these questions, personally, and I hope that those who do want to know can find something satisfactory.

Well, shizzle sticks and Jiminy Cricket -- I'm in it now!
Sorry if I offended anyone with this.
Why anyone should be offended by someone else's beliefs baffles me. I am fascinated by them. It's how we get to know each other. Now, criticizing one other for those beliefs, that's a horse of a different color.
 

BigBlueHen53

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Mouse, I read those references you included. In each case, they include statements such as "The Cambrian is BELIEVED to be ...." so many years old. "These worms are CONSIDERED to be..." man's earliest ancestors. Etc. These are basically unproved opinions. Again, because, as is true in any FAITH-BASED belief system, these statements cannot be proved by the scientific method. They are and remain, hypotheses. They cannot be experientially replicated. Please understand, I am not mocking them. I only seek to reveal them for what they are. They claim to be science, but they are not.
 

ChocolateMouse

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But the spaces between those particles? Between the atoms and molecules? What is there? I believe that there are teeny-tiny particles that make up all of the elements and such in the universe, but what is between them? Nothingness? What is it made of? What makes and defines, "nothing?"
And while we're asking questions, how on earth did we get from asking which came first, a chicken or an egg, to here?
(Personally, I'm not sure which came first. I just say, "whichever one God said so," frankly. Not sure that we'll ever really know for certain....)
Well, we got here because a lot of folks have a REALLY uneducated perspective on evolution.... And don't really grasp why it's not something to be "believed" in like a religion is. I'm making an attempt to explain why they're a fair bit different.

Nothingness is a possibility for the space between those particles. There's a lot of string theory that explains it a bit that's way above me. Things about the world forming in specific patterns - like gaps in the weave of a fabric.

But sincerely. Break it down - why do you believe in tiny particles you will never see or experience ever in your life but not friction goblins?
 

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