Update: Chicks dying, falling over and can't get back up

[BBUTTER]

We just lost another one. My husband said the sound they make when they breathe makes it seem like the whole bunch is crying. (I have a sweet man. He feels so helpless, too.)

 

[kathyinmo]

I am so sorry. I sure wish I had something to offer. I can only think of the heat. Their bedding.... Could they be eating the shavings?

 

[Duramaxgirl]

Are the shavings pine or cedar?

 

[BBUTTER]

Pine. They are not eating it. I've watched for that a lot. I got a different thermometer and checked the heat again. It seems fine. 100° immediately under the lamps with it lessening the further you get away from the lamps, of course. It gets down to 80° in the corners. Everyone is hanging out in the 90°+ zones.

Just lost four more...

This is so upsetting....

 

[kathyinmo]

100° seems too high to me. I don't know, but I think I would have 80°- 85° as the high.
They are about a week old. Recommendation is 90-95 the first week and reduce 5° per week. Those meaties can not take the heat. Anyway mine couldn't.

Does the pine have an aroma to it? They have such sensitive respiratory systems.

That's all I can think of anyway.

Sorry.

 

[kathyinmo]

Tell me more about the brooder. What it is made of?

Can you take them out of there and put them somewhere else?

 

[BBUTTER]

Good news--ish. We only lost three last night. I'm calling Murray McMurray in a minute.

Its only 100° in the area directly under the lamps--about a 10" radius. They have about a 4'x4 area to move around in, and it's freezing outside, so no one is sitting at 100°. Most were around 90° or so. I just lowered the average temp away from the lamps to 78°, but they immediately went under the lamps or huddled up, so most are still choosing the 90° zone. That's about the same as any of my other meat flocks have done at this age.

The brooder house is an 8x8 concrete building. I have it partitioned with cardboard and cinder blocks so that I can open larger areas as the chicks grow. The floor is concrete, but covered with fresh pine bedding. (I generally use the deep litter method, but I rearranged some things, and it had been a while since any other birds had been in there, so it was easier to just put down fresh bedding.) The feed is stored in a partitioned area in metal cans. Ventilation is at the top near the roof. The door can also be vented in warm weather, but it's sealed now due to the cold.
There is no odor of pine, ammonia, or mold. I also don't see any mold. That would have to be some fast growing mold, too, considering I put my eyes on every square inch of that place, including bottom of feed cans before those chicks went in there. It smells sweet in there, like it should. My whole family has pretty bad allergies, so I'm super cautious about dusty bedding, mold, ammonia, etc.

I'm hoping we're past the worst of it. Everyone is still having labored breathing, but they seem to be stabilizing. They were moving around more and eating better. I would like for them to drink more, though. I tried dipping a few beaks in the water, but I couldn't make them drink.

I know it might be just because they're focusing on breathing, but does anyone think there may be different reason as to why they won't drink much??

 

[kathyinmo]

Back to the links I provided..... It says:

Diagnosis: Good broilers found dead on their backs may be assumed to have died of flip-over because that position is rare in death from other causes except cardiac tamponade, asphyxia, and ascites syndrome ( Ascites Syndrome). Birds in good condition on their sides or breasts, scattered in a random fashion in the pen also usually are considered to be dead from flip-over.

Click on the Ascites Syndrome and I believe this supports your symptoms.

 

[BBUTTER]

YESSSSSS!!!!!!!!

I figured I was either going to have a very bad post or a very good post to write about Murray McMurray! It's a good one! They will definitely continue to have me as a customer.

I told them the whole story, and they asked a few questions. They said it sounds like they were either shaken in the mail or left in the cold by the postal service. A combination of the two would explain a lot. They are going to replace all chicks lost! They told me to wait until Thursday or Friday since I am worried about losing more of them, then call back with the total count of chicks lost. They will replace them next week!

They also said it sounds like I've done all I can do for these that are left.

I wish there was something I could do to save these! If these were my human babies, they'd be in the ICU on oxygen! I hate having to sit here and just watch them die. It feels wrong to watch them suffer!
Does anyone know of anything else I can do?

 

[BBUTTER]

Ascites syndrome definitely has many symptoms that match. I see that cold exposure is a cause. Sounds like someone didn't take care of my chicks on the flight south.

This sounds morbid, I know, but I had an older sister who died of a similar cause (congenital heart defect) as a baby. She also had very few symptoms early on, just weakness, and then sudden rapid progression of fluid on the lungs.