UPDATE!!! Please Help! Twisting backward neck....URGENT!!!! PLEASE!!

[threehorses]

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It might be now that she's not eating a lot because she's feeling better and is worried about not being with her buddies. You did what I would have done, honestly. Just check on her. If she's barging, that's a good sign.

 

[zowieyellowflame]

PHewwww.... She made it through the night and she has re-established her pecking order which remains near the bottom. I added another feeder to increase the chance she is getting all she wants.
I also had another thought.....I have her on grower but also there is layer mash in the coop for the big girls, which the little girls are eating sometimes too. Rye and the others are just about to be exclusively on layers mash. Maybe some birds only pick out certain pieces of the layers mash, and that could cause a deficiency. I also have a hungry hen, "Hennie" that keeps having thin shells or soft shells, so maybe she is choosing pieces too. Maybe I should switch to crumbles or pellets.
Also, can I buy vitamin E in a liquid jug? Or what foods is it in high quantities that I could supplement all of their diets with?

 

[threehorses]

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Well, she's a strong girl to re-establish her pecking order so quickly. Good! And yes- adding another feeder is always a sound bet. And I think the laying mash shouldn't really be a problem, though really it would be best if she were on a grower. For that reason, I will use a gamebird layer/breeder if I happen to have any young girls in with the layers. It's full of more regular nutrients as breeders are expected to "feed" their eggs to feed a chick, not just make eggs. The calcium is good for layers, the higher protein and higher nutrients are suitable for the last stages of grower if one food has to be combined.

Honestly the feed should be the main source of vitamins. Healthy birds shouldn't really need supplementation if the feed is age appropriate and stored in a light-proof, air tight container and used before expired and within a month.

For anything more, I use polyvisol for spot treating birds. Or I use cod liver oil or fortified wheat germ oil, sprayed on the food with a mister, twice a week. No more - in the case of oil based vitamins.

 

[zowieyellowflame]

Oh, things are not going too good now.
This morning, after I wrote about her progress, I went back out to check on her and I removed her to feed her the extra stuff. (vit b, e, and egg)
She didn't want to eat it and then she started with the spasms again. Adventually she did eat it, I put her back in, and I watched for a good 15 min. She was a little bit picked on, the hens had to be enclosed in the coop today because of the weather. Each time she got picked on, she would drop her head down low to the ground. This continued until she started with the spasms. The others seen this and they pecked her more.
So she is umm.... in the basement again.
I am quite concerned because she is not really eating much anymore. When she was in the coop she was eating from the feeder, in a non productive seeming way. She resists the egg mixture and tonight I notice barely any grower or water has been consumed. Her crop is always small now and she seems smaller than the other 2 barred rock pullets.
Wonder if there is something else going on with her health?

Sigh. Never mind, I just went down to feed her the egg mixture and she ate it right up. Also, I put the bowl of feed in front of her and while I held it she ate enough to get a plum sized crop. I pet her for a while and she snuggled right in, arched her back, flexed her toes, stretched her neck, closed her eyes and made purr sounds. She especially did this if I rubbed her crop and also a bit if I rubbed between her shoulder blades. (do chickens have shoulders?

) Something is not quite right with this crop. It feels a bit fibrous and something about the side of the crop closest to her mouth... the top.... it seems small and shrunken kind of. Maybe that is normal but she really reacts when I rub there.
Also, each time after she eats, for several minutes or several hours, she opens her mouth wide.... really wide. I thought gape worm but no respiratory involvement. I thought just that natural yawn thing chickens do, but it seems to be related to her eating, she seems distressed somehow.
One more thing, she never wants to drink water in my presence. Obviously she is drinking some or she would be dead by now, but it seems like very little. Her stools are kind of dry, not full of liquid. I have given watermelon but I am out of that tonight. Maybe tomato> I think her crop or mouth is bothering her.
No spasms tonight.
Tanya

 

[ruth]

If she has some sort of crop blockage that would explain the vitamin/nutrient deficiency. To test for that, keep her confined all night, without food or water, and check (feel) the crop the next morning. It should be flat. If it still feels like there's something in it, you can give her some olive oil, soaked in bread if necessary, and then massage the crop and try to break up the matter. My birds seem to love olive oil and will drink it right out of the cap but others suggest soaking in bread.

It does sound like she has some sort of blockage, hence the mouth opening, as if trying to get the food to go down and perhaps the fact you're not seeing her drink water.

So do try the olive oil, you can give lots of it, it's good for her and won't hurt her, and try massaging to break up the crop. This could be the reason for all of her problems.

As to the isolation, they don't do well in isolation since they are flock animals - she will love spending time with you however. When I need to isolate a bird, I put them in a cage or dog kennel inside the coop where they can still see and hear everyone else and everyone can see/hear them. That way when you need to release them from ICU they haven't lost their place in pecking order.

Good luck - you've been doing a great job.

Monique

 

[threehorses]

It's quite possible that the picking will cause her process to stop or reverse. Stress, like on all animals, is hard on a chicken's healing and immune system.

Did her crop empty today? If it doesn't, then fast her for a day from everything except small pieces of crustless bread with olive oil on them, water (with 2 tablespoons of organic ACV per quart), and a little yogurt on the bread. Massage the crop to keep the stuff in it from settling at the near-bottom and blocking her opening into her proventriculus. Think of a blocked sink; the contents don't necessarily have to be particularly solid, but once they sediment at the drain, they become something more solid. Stirring them back up into "solution" (into the liquid) allows some of the liquid (containing nutrients) to go into the proventriculum.

The ACV will help not only dissolve food items in the crop that aren't moving through, but will also help prevent fungi from forming from the yeasts of the fermenting food in there. It'll also help later down the digestive tract to dissolve any undigested food particles, and make the good bacteria happy.

The olive oil helps lubricate, the bread is a carrier.
The yogurt replaces good bacteria lining the entire digestive tract because good bacteria are always lost in any digestive upset (whether it be not eating, backed up food, or stress).

You really must do this fast for a full day, with massages, for it to work. People worry that their bird will starve in one day. It'll starve anyway if you don't, and it won't starve in a day but will definitely starve if the crop remains full as the bird will have no urge to eat as its crop is full. So this way continuously breaking up the sedimentation of the crop allows the digestive system to move.

I'm sorry things didn't march strongly forward. I understand circumstances are prompting you to want to return her to the flock as soon as possible. But with the addition of the crop issue (which could explain neck issues) she ideally should be apart from the crop eating NO solid foods, only things easily dissolved (crumbles, not pellets; boiled egg yolks, no whites, no scrambleds; bread, no solid grains at all; oatmeal ground to a powder first, not regular oatmeal; etc) so that her crop and the gizzard can readjust. You might be able to squeeze those days in now.

 

[zowieyellowflame]

Well it has been a crazy few days. I have not been on here for a few days, I have just been taking care of Rye, and quietly observing, and thinking.... and deciding on what treatment is best. Wednesday night was bad, she had quite a relapse and it was right on the tip of my tongue to ask my husband to put her down. Then I read about the olive oil, I couldn't even get it into her. (her crop did end up to be ok, it empties every night) I thought what in the world is going on? What is different? Why is she not getting better?
It dawned on me that just 12 hours after quiting the Novo Doxalin, she severely relapsed.
I put her back on it late wednesday night and she has continued to improve ever since.
I have eyeballed the dose.... I allow one 100 mg capsule to last 5 days, therefore each dose is 20 mg.
I am still giving her about 400 mg of E, a 1/4 tablet of B each day and every other day about a half tablet of selenium.
Yesterday I put her in the coop and she ran, played, ate, groomed in the yard with the others on a cool fall day.
She went into the coop on her own, dominated over other smaller pullets, ate for a while.
After a couple hours, she did seem a little stressed, did the "star gaze" look but no spasms.
I turned out the light so that everyone would sleep, I made sure she was able to cuddle with others to keep her warm.
I checked on her before I went to bed and she was ok. (she indicated that she would like to come with me, but I said no! lol)
This morning, she was fine and very hungry.
Now she is playing in the yard again.
She preens a lot.
I am crossing my fingers..... I hope she is going to be ok!
We are having a couple nice days in the forcast so that should help.
So I don't know what is going on, why the antibiotic seems to work, but it does. I dont think it is coincidence. Previously, someone had put a post to a link where a "doctor" suggested the proper treatment of wry neck..... B, E and selenium. And futher down a vet commented that you may want to add an antibiotic because some bacteria could in the muscles could cause these spasms...... I think this is a different disorder, or atleast a different form of wry neck that seems to affect silkies. Anyhow, what is a full course of antibiotics? I am tempted to continue for a total of 10 days. Right now we are at day 5.
thanks again for everyones care and concern.

 

[threehorses]

A full course is not only the right full dosage, but at least 7 days, more likely 10 days, often 14 days, and it's not unheard of to do 21 days. BUT with an oral antibiotic you want to do the probiotics daily. With a cycline, you must not use yogurt. Or any strong dairy product (milk, buttermilk, etc). The scant amount of dairy product used as a medium in acidophilus capsules and Probios powder is fine though.

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[zowieyellowflame]

Thank you!
She is continuing to improve, enjoying life with her buddies. I would not know that she is the chicken with the wry neck aside from the zip tie on her leg and her friendly demeanor and a slight tilt to one side when she is looking for a treat!
I will do the antibiotics until atleast day 10
Thanks!

 

[zowieyellowflame]

She is relasping a bit tonight. She is turning her head to the right, a little bit of twisting which is different from the last few days. And also, diarrhea.... looks like butterscotch pudding. Same poop as the roosters in a separate pen. I gave her the antibiotics and b and e with watermelon, to help combat dehydration.
I am hoping this is a biproduct of the antibiotics which I likely will end on Tuesday, that will be 14 days.