[UPDATED] CHICK PEEPING AT DAY 13 (yes, really!)

[CajunFeatherz]

Quick facts about this egg
•pipped yesterday probably around noon
•has not been peeping much
•is malpositioned and pipping at the small end
•has been sticking her beak out and panting with her tongue flapping and neck bobbing, totally different from the other chick. Rarely peeping.

At around noon today I removed a piece of the shell and replaced her in the inc. Another egg also pipped around that time, then another. Still no zipping in the first chick. So I tore small hole in membrane around 3. No movement, removed piece of shell around 6. Just now I sliced through additional membrane because it all looked dry, and she bled. It resolved as soon as she was replaced in the dehydrator but it looks like there is still a lot of blood inside. She is not in a position to hatch on her own at all and will have to be assisted, but should I be concerned about the amount of blood that still appears to be inside 30+ hours after pip? The egg that pipped around noon appears to be unzipping as we speak. Keep in mind I have no way of knowing how old these eggs were when they went in, so is it day 19 for them? Day 21? 24? Impossible to know. Normally I wouldnt consider assisted hatching but I am afraid to wait too long and have exhaustion deaths on my conscience, but now it looks like I'm hurting them either way :/ I'm flying very blind so any help rocks. Thanks guys

 

[JaeG]

Generally a bit of a bleed won't hurt them. If there's still blood the chick still isn't ready to hatch, so I'd leave it until it's more like 36 hours in and check cautiously again. If it's pipped straight out then that will add to the amount of time until it is ready to hatch as it doesn't get that internally pipped stage. So it may even be around 48 hours before it's ready to enter the world. If it's gasping that means it's still absorbing the yolk which is what you might be seeing. You can just chip off the shell and if you wet the membrane you'll see if there are still veins with blood in them (though sometimes just pulling on the membrane to get the shell off can make them bleed too), but then if you expose too much membrane it dries out and gets tight faster. It's not easy, I know!

 

[CajunFeatherz]

I do think I exposed too much of the membrane but the humidity is up at 70-72% and I am adding moisture to the membrane as needed. I am shocked it could be another 48 hours from now!! I was aware it takes much longer when they pip in the wrong location but since it had already been 36 hours or so since she broke through I was worried. However I will definitely continue to wait and keep an eye. I'm wondering if she just grew and wriggled around and popped the shell way early. As for the breathing, I'm not sure if it's gasping, it's more like going "lalalala" while mouth breathing if that makes sense. I'm sure if there's still blood, there's probably still yolk. Her face is covered by some kind of body parts (hard to tell what, maybe a leg) so I think I have no choice but to help when it's time but eek, gauging the right moment is tough!! Perhaps she still can wriggle around to the right position if she has that much time left on the clock. Very relieved to hear she still has a chance to make it and the blood doesn't indicate something terribly wrong (yet) though.

I literally cannot wait for my normal eggs to hatch, what a piece of cake that's gonna seem like by comparison! Lol

 

[JaeG]

They sure are giving you sleepless nights! I meant it may be 48 hours from that first pip, maybe even a little longer. sums it up pretty well! It's so difficult to judge especially when things aren't progressing normally. They have no idea what they put us through! Good thing they are so cute!

 

[CajunFeatherz]

Good thing they are so cute!

You darn right!

Thanks for the advice @JaeG!! will update when something changes.

 

[shanadienne]

Wow, this is an exciting thread! I'm so happy for Lotus!

That said, my two cents:
I wouldn't worry too too much about these chicks. The temperature/humidity fluctuations and the bad positioning are concerns and you should do whatever you can to fix/compensate, but in my experience with broody hens, lockdown on day 18 is unnecessary. I know that sounds crazy, but all of the broodies I've paid close attention to have a.) taken their usual breaks on days 18 through 20 or even 21 and b.) continued to turn their eggs during that time, sometimes even after they've pipped and started to zip. They still have fabulous hatch rates (e.g. last year between 3 hens who don't believe in lockdown I got 9/9, 2/2, and 13/16-to-start) and anything that peeps hatches. Years back I even had one chick who made it after being abandoned and left in the cold for either one or two days before pipping.

In other words, while I hesitate to say chances are good for these chicks, they probably don't need any more help hatching than if they'd been incubated/locked down "properly."

(P.S. Moral of the story, chicken keepers need to collect eggs at least every other day, and pay enough attention to their flock to notice when they have a broody.)

 

[Crazy_with_kidz_and_chicz]

The second egg that pipped has been well over 30 hours at this point, so I attempted to do the same and help it hatch. I pulled a bit of membrane back and got a decent amount of blood. Not like a gush but 4 or 5 drops. I put her back in the inc and have the humidity nice and high. But have I just ruined this chick?

i really think they don't need as much help as we think they do. i am devastated that I helped out one the first time we hatched and it only lived 2 hours. i have read posts that were 48 hours from pip. all the pip is extra air when they become air breathing. I think they have absorbed enough food for 48 hours so they have at least that long to get out right assuming they absorbed already before the pip usually they are still absorbing during pip. LOTUS is SO CUTE~!

 

[CajunFeatherz]

Update! Two more chicks were born overnight with quite a bit of assistance but they appear healthy despite this wild ride lol. I still required they broke the majority of their own egg, so I could notice enough strength, and once they had a little start in the right direction they wriggled free quickly after, same as before. Like Lotus, they are more than average exhausted but really healthy, well formed, and loud! All yolk absorbed and whichever one I made bleed appears to be equally as ok as the other.

I do think the assisted hatch in this case was paramount; both of these last two had their legs, wing, and a body part I couldn't really identify smashed over their faces. I did tons of research before hatching and was constantly in touch with my local chicken guru, so I know birds faces are always somewhat covered, but there's a good article out there on malpositioning someone shared on another thread maybe? and no doubt this hatchling was in a funky form. The beak could barely push through the body parts to pip, so there was no way they were going to rotate their necks and zip out. Once freed from the entanglement of the shell and given a head start on the membrane to free up some range of motion, however, they had a much easier time. I think understanding the dynamics, time frame, movement, and structure of a hatching egg was important to knowing when to step in. What looks like resting or breathing can be scary, but it's not until the peeps turned from "Ok I'm coming out now!" to "hey! I can't do this!!!!" that I decided start the assist.

As a caveat: NO ONE SHOULD FOLLOW THIS ADVICE, because I still think in 99% of cases I would have been 1) ok with losing some eggs to positioning defects and 2) way more hesitant to step in over just a slow pip. I drew blood the one time because I became overzealous and wouldn't go that quickly again, but in my mind I do feel I overall did the right thing. For a newbie this was very much trial and error, but I'm happy with the results and I'm very happy I stepped in and made sure they hatched, because they're very healthy chicks by all appearances! I know assisted hatches are often not needed and rare and this being my first time I might be jumping in too quickly, but I also think we all know our own circumstances best in those critical moments, and I think this was the best choice for the best chance at a positive outcome!

I have 3 left in there that never did pip, it remains to be seen if they do since I have no idea how old the eggs are, but I kinda think the time on them has come and gone. No peeps or flutters from those eggs in a while. But the inc has to run a few more days anyway so they're gonna get plenty of time to decide.

The two new hatches (Lips and Fipnicki, if you're wondering) are sleeping now but they should be ready for their close-up in no time, and I'll post a pic when I can I appreciate everyone staying tuned for this episode of The Young And The Restless, which is definitely what I'm calling hatches from now on. Hoo boy.

 

[Crazy_with_kidz_and_chicz]

Update! Two more chicks were born overnight with quite a bit of assistance but they appear healthy despite this wild ride lol. I still required they broke the majority of their own egg, so I could notice enough strength, and once they had a little start in the right direction they wriggled free quickly after, same as before. Like Lotus, they are more than average exhausted but really healthy, well formed, and loud! All yolk absorbed and whichever one I made bleed appears to be equally as ok as the other.

I do think the assisted hatch in this case was paramount; both of these last two had their legs, wing, and a body part I couldn't really identify smashed over their faces. I did tons of research before hatching and was constantly in touch with my local chicken guru, so I know birds faces are always somewhat covered, but there's a good article out there on malpositioning someone shared on another thread maybe? and no doubt this hatchling was in a funky form. The beak could barely push through the body parts to pip, so there was no way they were going to rotate their necks and zip out. Once freed from the entanglement of the shell and given a head start on the membrane to free up some range of motion, however, they had a much easier time. I think understanding the dynamics, time frame, movement, and structure of a hatching egg was important to knowing when to step in. What looks like resting or breathing can be scary, but it's not until the peeps turned from "Ok I'm coming out now!" to "hey! I can't do this!!!!" that I decided start the assist.

As a caveat: NO ONE SHOULD FOLLOW THIS ADVICE, because I still think in 99% of cases I would have been 1) ok with losing some eggs to positioning defects and 2) way more hesitant to step in over just a slow pip. I drew blood the one time because I became overzealous and wouldn't go that quickly again, but in my mind I do feel I overall did the right thing. For a newbie this was very much trial and error, but I'm happy with the results and I'm very happy I stepped in and made sure they hatched, because they're very healthy chicks by all appearances! I know assisted hatches are often not needed and rare and this being my first time I might be jumping in too quickly, but I also think we all know our own circumstances best in those critical moments, and I think this was the best choice for the best chance at a positive outcome!

I have 3 left in there that never did pip, it remains to be seen if they do since I have no idea how old the eggs are, but I kinda think the time on them has come and gone. No peeps or flutters from those eggs in a while. But the inc has to run a few more days anyway so they're gonna get plenty of time to decide.

The two new hatches (Lips and Fipnicki, if you're wondering) are sleeping now but they should be ready for their close-up in no time, and I'll post a pic when I can I appreciate everyone staying tuned for this episode of The Young And The Restless, which is definitely what I'm calling hatches from now on. Hoo boy.

congrats! go babies go

 

[CajunFeatherz]

The two birds from last night died almost immediately, apparently both were mushy. I'm super sad and progressively more irritated with the woman who sold me these eggs, especially for a first hatch. We have definitely learned that in terms of the local poultry world, cash is king and people will sell you anything for $5 around here. I've reached out to her to ask questions about the eggs, the dates they were set, if she's had successful hatches. No response. I'm going to write off the last 4 eggs entirely for the sake of my sanity. If any of them hatch I won't hold my breath for chicks as robust as Lotus. I imagine the reason she went first and came out with very little help is she was the healthiest of the bunch. Mushy chick is the worst IMO because you can't do anything and you think all's good but bam, dead bird so fast. Definitely took the wind out of my sails a bit but I'm just hoping the remainder of my hatch has not been hindered by all this drama. I also haven't slept in aboutttt 55 hours, so my level of doneness is probably maxed out. Lol off to work now, wish me luck that I get at least one more living, healthy hatchling out of this please!!!! At least we got Lotus the Very Early Bird...right? :/