Urgent Advice Needed

[coach723]

That's why I said 'generally'.
My dog is half 'lassie' and she's not going to go get anybody when Timmy is in trouble! She's gonna chase a bird, or rabbit, or whatever while the bear eats me.

 

[Hen Help]

Are you so sure about that? Tell that to my dog please.

I had a dumb one once, so I know exactly what you mean. Very pretty, but not smart at all.

This one was smart enough to both UNLOCK and open the back door while we were out. It was a premeditated act of revenge for leaving him behind for 2 hours, he was efficient and knew exactly what he was doing. He did it once last summer too as a young 6 month old pup, but had never tried to do it while we were all home together. I used to push his giant dog crate in front of the back door to prevent access to the door lever, but I figured that by now he had matured and forgotten about it. Nope. The back door was swinging wide open when we got home.

When it became clear to him that he had hurt the chicken and she was in the melting snow pile not moving (yes, we still have snow), he stopped and went to sit by the front door where we found him looking as guilty as sin. I don't get the impression that his motive was to hurt or kill. Nonetheless, I would normally never take a chance.

He is very alpha and needs to learn his place. My fault for spoiling him and not being firm. My fault for not pushing his crate to block the door.

 

[Hen Help]

You may be surprised how well she feathers out once healed, very often you can't tell that anything happened. Picture attached below of one of my hens that was scalped. Skin was completely gone, her skull was visible. The picture is once she just started feathering out, and once they were all in you could not tell anything had happened. It's a much smaller area than your birds wound, but it's really amazing how they heal up.
I understand about the dog, I have two. One is a great Pyrenees, he doesn't consider birds a threat and they are too much work to chase, they're just treat dispensers (he's a poop connoisseur ), and my other is a rescue dog that is a pyrenees/rough collie mix, which is an absolutely terrible combination. Despite all efforts (LOTS of effort), she loses her mind over any kind of bird at all, chases buzzards circling 100's of feet overhead. She's just simply not allowed around the birds. Luckily we have the space to make that happen. Training can help immensely, but with some dogs and some behaviour it's difficult to overcome genetics, so sometimes it's management rather than fixing. Poodles are generally pretty smart, so you are fortunate there! Good luck!
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I can't tell you how helpful you have been. Truly. Thank you so much, coach. This picture is gold. I now know what to look for and what to expect. That photo is fascinating. Thank you so much for digging it up. How long ago did it happen? Who dunnit?

Thank you for being calm for me when this happened and thank you for helping me wrap my head around giving her a chance to live.

We'll see about the dog. We have a cat too so, we'll see if we can get him to stop chasing the cat first. Funny thing is that at night, when things are calm they actually sleep with one another. Now if I can just get him to relax and not chase. I may not, but I'll try.

 

[coach723]

That picture was taken several years ago, my hen was in a hen saddle and some how got her legs tangled up in it (I suspect a roo was involved, but will never know). So the flock attacked her, all damage was done by other hens. Found her laying tangled up and bloodied, initially worried she'd lost an eye, but thankfully that was not the case. Once she was scabbed over enough that I wasn't worried about flies getting to her, I moved her to a wire crate in the run, so she could see everybody and they could see her. That makes re-integrating a lot easier when the time comes. The funny thing was, that since her legs were tangled up, she decided she was crippled too, and couldn't/wouldn't walk for about 36 hours. There was not actually anything wrong with her legs, it just took her that long to figure out that they worked again. Even with time spent holding her up, and helping her walk, her brain just wouldn't accept it. They can be odd little things sometimes.
After she was healed up, she lived a couple more years, just fine, all normal, until a reproductive problem finally took her.
You are very welcome, I'm glad I was able to help. I know how it feels in the moment, panicked and overwhelmed. Sometimes there isn't anything you can do for them, but they often recover from some awful things.

 

[Hen Help]

That picture was taken several years ago, my hen was in a hen saddle and some how got her legs tangled up in it (I suspect a roo was involved, but will never know). So the flock attacked her, all damage was done by other hens. Found her laying tangled up and bloodied, initially worried she'd lost an eye, but thankfully that was not the case. Once she was scabbed over enough that I wasn't worried about flies getting to her, I moved her to a wire crate in the run, so she could see everybody and they could see her. That makes re-integrating a lot easier when the time comes. The funny thing was, that since her legs were tangled up, she decided she was crippled too, and couldn't/wouldn't walk for about 36 hours. There was not actually anything wrong with her legs, it just took her that long to figure out that they worked again. Even with time spent holding her up, and helping her walk, her brain just wouldn't accept it. They can be odd little things sometimes.
After she was healed up, she lived a couple more years, just fine, all normal, until a reproductive problem finally took her.
You are very welcome, I'm glad I was able to help. I know how it feels in the moment, panicked and overwhelmed. Sometimes there isn't anything you can do for them, but they often recover from some awful things.

Just curious, why is it that you think they attack the injured or weak? I am trying to understand the logic of this from an evolutionary standpoint. Do you know?
For example, I assumed that since both my hens were injured and vulnerable that they could perch together without drama. It took seconds for the white one to start pecking at the much more injured black one. I find this so peculiar.

Thanks so much for relaying your story because I would have gone for a hen saddle when the time was right. I see now that maybe its safest to just let them heal naturally.

Do you happen to recall how long it took to get to the point in the picture? All of the crusty stuff, is that ointment or just skin?

 

[coach723]

It's just skin, some bits of residual scab, and pin feathers coming in. I think that picture was 5 or 6 weeks in. The scab was very thick when it formed, I kept the ointment on it for quite a while so that it wouldn't dry out and crack. Once it's healed up and just scab you can switch to vaseline for that if you want and if it's needed. Hen saddles can be useful, but I would not use them over a wound. They could rub and cause irritation, inhibit healing, or introduce bacteria, and wounds generally do better if they are open to the air.
They will often attack a sick or weak bird, and they are more likely to recognize it, and earlier, than we are. Sometimes the first clue that something is going on with a bird is that the others attack it. It's a survival instinct, cruel as it seems. A sick or weak bird is more likely to attract a predator (predators will often target the sick or weak) so they will try to drive it away, for preservation of the flock. They also are attracted to anything red, so raw tissue, blood, etc will draw pecking. That's why they have to be protected until they heal. Any wound, or vent prolapse, can become much, much worse if it's missed as the other birds can do substantial damage in a short period of time. Sometimes when a bird dies, the others will cannibalize it after death. There are no absolutes with chickens, they don't read or adhere to any of our 'rules', but those are very common behaviors.

 

[Hen Help]

It's just skin, some bits of residual scab, and pin feathers coming in. I think that picture was 5 or 6 weeks in. The scab was very thick when it formed, I kept the ointment on it for quite a while so that it wouldn't dry out and crack. Once it's healed up and just scab you can switch to vaseline for that if you want and if it's needed. Hen saddles can be useful, but I would not use them over a wound. They could rub and cause irritation, inhibit healing, or introduce bacteria, and wounds generally do better if they are open to the air.
They will often attack a sick or weak bird, and they are more likely to recognize it, and earlier, than we are. Sometimes the first clue that something is going on with a bird is that the others attack it. It's a survival instinct, cruel as it seems. A sick or weak bird is more likely to attract a predator (predators will often target the sick or weak) so they will try to drive it away, for preservation of the flock. They also are attracted to anything red, so raw tissue, blood, etc will draw pecking. That's why they have to be protected until they heal. Any wound, or vent prolapse, can become much, much worse if it's missed as the other birds can do substantial damage in a short period of time. Sometimes when a bird dies, the others will cannibalize it after death. There are no absolutes with chickens, they don't read or adhere to any of our 'rules', but those are very common behaviors.

Your base of knowledge on these matters astounds me. It is clear that you bring to the community diverse knowledge as well as much experience. I thank you for sharing it with me and with all of us. I have a growing fascination with birds and how both similar and uniquely different from mammals.

I only have 2 partially used tubes of ointment left and because of where we live; it is simply not available here OTC. I will have to wait until a friend can travel to bring me more when she visits this summer. I will try to spread it as thinly as possible to make it stretch and I will have to switch to vaseline as soon as it scabs over. We have plenty of access to that. One thing I can easily make is colloidal silver and I do have iodine. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to mix one or the other into a vaseline paste if things get desperate. Maybe that's silly, I don't know.

 

[coach723]

You are very kind! I still learn something every day! Hopefully your ointment will last long enough that a scab starts to form. It's most important to keep it moist, my dermatologist recommends vaseline for minor wounds for that reason. The iodine and vaseline might work well if you can get them to mix, I use sugardine (betadine/sugar) for bumblefoot and it works well for that, probably not a great choice for a wound this large unless it got infected. Hopefully vaseline will be adequate, sometimes we have to work with what we have. As long as there is no infection she has a very good chance of recovery, it just takes time.
EDIT: In a pinch you can also use honey, I keep a jar of Manuka honey just for wound care. It's mildly antibacterial and will also help keep the tissue moist. Any honey will work, the more real/raw it is the better.