URGENT! Chicken layer feed has "dead animal bodies" in it?

[Katy]

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It's not that I think it's "gross" it's that I think it's "unhealthy." There's nothing wrong with a chicken pecking through cow manure, per se. But cow manure from factory farms, fed anitbiotics and given growth hormones, getting sicker and sicker from being fed grain just before slaughter, is not the same thing. I just don't trust the source. Likewise, I don't have a problem with chickens eating meat -- they are omnivores, after all -- I just don't trust the QUALITY of the meat going into their feed if I can't see it. And again, this is ME.

Would you let your chickens eat meat from an animal on your farm that just dropped dead one day, and you didn't know why? Or maybe you did know why, and it was because the animal was really sick. Would you feed it to your chickens? I wouldn't. But animals like that are allowed into animal feed. Yes, they are. Not just the big factory farms, but ALL animal feed. If it's allowed to be in there, assume it IS in there, unless stated otherwise. And that's why I don't trust it. I'd rather (for myself...again, do what you wish...to each his own) buy a vegetarian feed, or a feed where the only animal protein is fish, and include animal protein from a source I can verify. I've seen threads on here on raising worms in compost bins, black soldier larvae, and other sources of protein. From learning about exotic avian husbandry, I know that a lot of people raise their own insects (and it's very cheap to do). Again, do what you want. If you are fine with how it works, then keep doing it. But don't say that something isn't true simply because you don't want to believe it.

~Chris

We haven't lost an animal to any illness other than a calf to scours or pnuemonia once in a while or a cow from calving trouble sometimes......the cows get hauled off to the rendering plant the calves out to the hedgerow. My dogs think they've died and gone to heaven when that happens......but they won't touch it until it's gotten nice and ripe....not exactly what the FDA would allow I'm sure but they like it. Animals are not humans and what wouldn't be good for a person isn't neccesarily bad for an animal. So in answer to your question yes, I'd allow them to eat it.

I hope you don't turn this into another argument into CAFOs....... no such thing as "factory farm"....especially since too many people are so sadly misinformed about what is or isn't allowed there....including yourself it would seem.

Looking at studies online to get your info is all well and good to a certain point but you need to remember they are all funded by one side of the argument or the other and a study can be made to say anything they want.

When you get your own flock you're going to be free to feed them as you chose....just make sure it's based on truth not just some studies you've read online.

 

[spiritdance]

Just to clarify, my reference in my rant to people and groups using dishonest means was not directed to Katy, but rather to the "anonymous" producer of the advertisement this thread references. I give full credit to those willing to do their own research and make informed decisions. That said, I stand by my assertion that "pets" do not find their way into "meat meal;" existing regs as well as the financial realities of competing with a well-organized, massively scaled commercial meat industry simply doesn't make that feasible. Why bother rendering Fido when, even after rendering, huge quantities of meat and by-products from "acceptable" animals find their way into the landfills and fertilizer tanks every day?

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You obviously haven't been around either dogs or chickens and the disgusting things they relish to eat if given the chance. My dogs' favorite "treat" is afterbirth that has been cooking in the sun for a couple of days. When my chickens free-ranged their favorite place to eat was in the cow lot in the fresh cow patties.

 

[AquaEyes]

The quoted text below is from here:

http://www.nationalaglawcenter.org/assets/crs/RS21771.pdf

I have bolded sections for emphasis relevant to this discussion.

"Introduction

Renderers convert dead animals and animal parts that otherwise would require disposal into a variety of materials, including edible and inedible tallow and lard and proteins such as meat and bone meal (MBM). These materials in turn are exported or sold to domestic manufacturers of a wide range of industrial and consumer goods such as livestock feed and pet food, soaps, pharmaceuticals, lubricants, plastics, personal care products, and even crayons.

Although rendering provides an essential service to the increasingly intensive and cost-competitive U.S. animal and meat industries (and is subject to certain government food safety and environmental regulations), the industry has largely operated outside of public view. However, rendering has attracted greater public attention since the discovery of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE or mad cow disease) in two North American cows in 2003. U.S. officials have announced or are considering new regulatory actions intended to reassure foreign and domestic customers that BSE will not threaten food safety or U.S. cattle herds. These actions are likely to cause changes in renderers' business practices, costs, and product values. Any changes in the economics of rendering likely will affect the economics of animal and meat producers too.

Industry Overview

Renderers annually convert 47 billion pounds or more of raw animal materials into approximately 18 billion pounds of products. Sources for these materials include meat slaughtering and processing plants (the primary one); dead animals from farms, ranches, feedlots, marketing barns, animal shelters, and other facilities; and fats, grease, and other food waste from restaurants and stores.

In meat animal slaughtering and processing plants, the amount of usable material from each animal depends largely upon the species. For example, at slaughter, a 1,200-pound steer can yield anywhere from 55% to 60% of human edible product, including meat for retail sale, edible fat, and variety meats (organs, tongue, tail, etc.), according to various estimates. Subtracting another 5%-8% for the weight of the hide, which goes into leather, leaves 32%-40% of material for rendering. If this range were applied consistently to all 35.5. million U.S. cattle slaughtered in 2003, the equivalent would represent the weight of approximately 11 million to 14 million live cattle.

Elsewhere, independent renderers collect and process about half of all livestock and poultry that die from diseases or accidents before reaching slaughter plants (Sparks 2002). U.S. farm animal mortalities in 2000 included approximately 4.1 million cattle and calves (totaling 1.9 billion pounds); 18 million hogs (1 billion pounds); 833,000 sheep, lambs, and goats (64 million pounds); and 82 million chickens and turkeys (347 million pounds), according to Sparks, which examined USDA data.

'Disposing of these mortalities is complicated because of the need to minimize adverse environmental consequences, such as the spread of human and animal disease or the pollution of ground or surface water.' Sparks (2002) observed. 'For many producers, paying a modest fee to have a renderer remove dead carcasses is likely preferred to finding alternative on-farm disposal methods' (i.e., burial, incineration, or composting).'"

 

[AquaEyes]

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See my previous post. Unfortunately, you are wrong. Pets can, and do, end up in animal feed. True, most of it is coming from agribusiness (and includes 4-D sources), but the fact remains that pets DO find their way into meat meal.



~Chris

ETA

If you've been feeding your chickens a feed mix which contains these ingredients and have happy, healthy chickens, and you are satisfied with your results, by all means continue doing so. If you simply have an aversion to the idea of these ingredients going into your chickens, and then eating them or their eggs, then seek feed which lists ingredients with which you are happy. Do what's best for you, but make informed decisions.

 

[AquaEyes]

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What I initially read on this topic was, I agree, biased, but that led me to reading things that are non-biased, i.e. the law, to find out the truth. I wanted to find out what was legally allowed in, what the ingredients listed legally represented, and made my choices accordingly. Again, I'm not telling people what to feed or what not to feed. That is personal choice. If the OP chooses NOT to feed her chickens a diet that includes certain ingredients, then she must become educated as to what the ingredients legally can be. If she decides that ultimately what matters is happy healthy chickens, regardless of what they're eating, then that's her choice. I responded to this thread because she posted a concern about pet dogs and cats ending up in animal feed. Responses were that "no, that doesn't happen." I responded that "yes, it does happen, and here's proof from non-biased sources." I then added my own personal preference of not allowing animal products into my own animals' formulated feeds, instead adding it myself from human-grade sources. That is my preference. I'm not telling anyone else what to do, other than to be informed when making their own decisions.

I would more greatly trust feeding my dogs animals that died on my own farm than those that died on someone else's farm (from who knows what). The prevailing belief was that when heated to high enough temperatures for a long enough time, anything that could make an animal sick was destroyed. We know now that this is not true. Aflotoxins (from fungus-spoiled grains, for example) are not destroyed. Yes, the fungus that makes them is killed, but any aflotoxins already present will remain. Prions are "renegade protein molecules" that include the cause of BSE. They are also not destroyed by heat. Additionally, cooking food at such high temperatures for so long alters the digestibility and nutrient levels of the food. I'd prefer (again, my preference) to feed my dogs more of a raw-type diet. When I have chickens, they will be for my own purposes, not being raised for profit. I would have no problem paying more for food that fits my preferences. But that's me, and I make no judgments on other people.

My purpose for responding to this thread was to show evidence that pets actually can be (and are) turned into animal feed ingredients. The OP expressed concern that this was the case, and seems to have a preference against this practice. I wanted to provide information for her to use when selecting the feed she chooses to use for her own birds. Just as when I get my own flock I am going to be free to feed them as I choose, so is the OP. I simply posted to help her in gathering information to make her own decisions.



~Chris

 

[schellie69]

I read that report it did mention animal shelters once the rest talked about animal slaughter houses and cattle there was no mention of dogs or cats being processed. I do believe and read a report that stated animals from animal shelters that where not buried or burned where taken to a plant to be burned. I do not think that people who do take dead animals from slaughter houses or farms have different processes for dealing with different animals. I have found with owning animals my whole life and being raised on a farm and having a family that has had a farm for generations you might control what you feed your animals part of the time but when they are out on the farm they eat things you would never believe. I read reports that are written by both sides with a grain of salt they will say what ever they think the people want to hear. All I can do is do the best I can for my pets and farm animals and go from there. And to Katy I understand with the dogs it seems the longer and riper it is the better for them.

 

[AquaEyes]

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It mentioned animal shelters as a legal source of material. Yes, it didn't specifically mention dogs or cats, but what species constitute the vast majority of animals in animal shelters? Cattle? Sheep? No, dogs and cats. 3-4 million are euthanized in this country each year. That's a lot to get burned and buried, when the cheaper "rendering option" is available.

I suppose it comes down to a different way of looking at things. The way I see things, if something is possible, I assume it happens unless otherwise stated. When something is allowable by law, I assume it happens unless otherwise stated, and I assume it happens more than something that is possible but not allowable. So by my way of thinking, if the law says dogs and cats are allowable sources of raw material for animal feed, I assume it happens, unless a bag of animal feed specifically states otherwise.

Yes, I agree about not being able to control what an animal eats when it is allowed to free-range. And I don't have a problem with animals eating other animals (or for me eating other animals). I just want to know and trust the source. People have been feeding their "leftovers" and "food waste" to animals since the beginning of livestock keeping. But the source of that food was known and trusted. I don't trust the source of animal products in animal feed because of what laws allow.

 

[Katy]

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A more up to date report might be a little more credible.....that report is from 2004.

 

[AquaEyes]

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OK, then find me one that's more up to date which refutes it. Thus far, I'm the only one in this thread who has posted ANYTHING that lists a credible source. Are you saying that because of mass public outcry, the industry has changed in the last six or seven years and has stopped this long-time practice? If that was the case, my google-searching for documents would have found a more recent source than the one I posted.

The OP posted learning that dogs and cats from shelters wind up in animal feed from an ad, and wanted to know if it was true. People here said "nah" but had no proof. I posted proof that, according to the law, animal shelters are an acceptable source of protein for animal feed. Anything from the sources mentioned in that document can, after rendering, be listed as "meat and bone meal" on an ingredient list for animal feed. These are facts. How you choose to use them are up to you. But don't say that because you don't like the idea, somehow these facts must not be true.



~Chris

 

[Katy]

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OK, then find me one that's more up to date which refutes it. Thus far, I'm the only one in this thread who has posted ANYTHING that lists a credible source. Are you saying that because of mass public outcry, the industry has changed in the last six or seven years and has stopped this long-time practice? If that was the case, my google-searching for documents would have found a more recent source than the one I posted.

The OP posted learning that dogs and cats from shelters wind up in animal feed from an ad, and wanted to know if it was true. People here said "nah" but had no proof. I posted proof that, according to the law, animal shelters are an acceptable source of protein for animal feed. Anything from the sources mentioned in that document can, after rendering, be listed as "meat and bone meal" on an ingredient list for animal feed. These are facts. How you choose to use them are up to you. But don't say that because you don't like the idea, somehow these facts must not be true.



~Chris

I know the rendering plant that operates in our area has changed their rules on how and what they will pick up and it's because of changes in government rules in the last few years....so yes I do believe a lot has changed since 2004.

Do you have any agricultural background at all? Or is everything you believe based solely on what you've read on the internet?