US citizens do you know you you lack a very basic right?

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Are you talking about the salmonella problems? The FDA had worked up salmonella prevention regulations in the past couple of years to be enacted starting this year. They went into effect right about the same time that the outbreak cropped up with the Iowa farm. The new rules allowed them to go onto the farm, inspect, and fine the producer for not following their brand new rules, which probably wouldn't have prevented the outbreak anyway, since the outbreak was traced to a batch of infected meat and bone meal being used for feed, which is a mode of contamination that isn't even addressed in the new FDA rules...

It doesn't effect the back yard producer at all, since the rules only pertain to those with more than 3000 hens.

I read here somewhere about recent cases of ill treatment of poultry in big company premises in the US.

The UK seems to have a problem with the law not doing its job. Some years ago, a group of us at a week long conference in a good hotel became ill. The hotel manager wasn't inclined to do anything so I asked for the local Government Health Inspector to be called. We and the hotel staff were swabbed and, a month later, someone called at our homes for other samples to see whether we still had the problem. I spoke to the Inspector on the 'phone early during this period and he said that there was a problem with salmonella in the poultry industry and pointed out that we had eaten buffet lunches that included mayonnaise, eggs and chicken. He was quite clear in his description of the danger with those foods. I heard nothing after that but, having refused to pay the hotel bill until we knew the source of the sickness, I was under pressure to get this resolved. I called the Inspector and reminded him that he had suggested we had salmonella. He reacted angrily, denied having said it, denied that it was salmonella and claimed that a member of the party must have brought a virus to the conference. A few weeks later, a member of the British Cabinet in Downing Street, Edwina Curry the Health Minister no less, told us all that there was a salmonella problem in the poultry industry and it had been covered up. For her honesty she was sacked.

More recently, one of Britain's biggest turkey producers, whose marketing led one to believe the birds were all reared in Britain in a rural setting, was caught importing diseased birds from Eastern Europe. Were there no checks on them coming in to the country? Also, an animal rights group filmed some of his night worker playing football with live turkeys. The manager put in front of cameras to lie the company's way out of the problem failed and lost his job. The company was fined but carried on.

Sometimes, only public opinion and outcry will bring an appropriate outcome.

Omniskies, if the government serves those who complain and protest, then all that the consumers of home produced food need to do is shout loudest. Somehow, I don't think it's that simple. Is it votes that count or the promise of good jobs after the political gravy train is over?
 
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That's the crux of the problem. Everybody expects that it's the government's job to make everything safe. Everybody assumes some government entity is inspecting every step of every process to ensure that nobody gets sick and when they find out to the contrary everybody is wondering how such things happen and start pointing fingers and calling for legislation. Then folks turn around and want such things as raw milk on the shelves...

What happens when somebody does get sick from raw milk? Wasn't the government supposed to protect us from that, or is raw milk supposed to be the exception to the rule?

What if I were to tell you that nobody was inspecting the hen houses? State officials and USDA inspect the egg packing plants as food processing areas to make sure they are sanitary. The USDA is also on many of the sites to do egg grading. It's the FDA that is technically in charge of production practices in the hen houses and there weren't any inspections as there were really no animal husbandry regulations. The new salmonella prevention regulations are the first such rules to be applied in the hen houses. What? How could they not be inspecting? Isn't this serious business? They need to be protecting us! or do they?
 
Just as a matter of interest on the side, if in the US you became very sick by knowingly consuming some food or drink produced other than according to current regulations, would that perhaps prejudice the validity of your health insurance?
 
Thai, what you have to understand is that America is, for all intents and purposes, a unified Europe. Half the country wants one thing, the other half wants another thing. Within those two groups you have a couple dozen states that each have their own idea on how to achieve the goal, and they aren't going to put up with all of those other guys ruining the country with _their_ silly ideas.

So we have a unified country of a million ideas and a million-million ways to resolve those ideas. I can call up the government and rant and rave about how my eggs are perfectly safe. I can get 10,000 people to join me. 10,000 is a pretty big movement in a small midwestern area, right? Except for the fact that I live in a city with a population of 200,000. Getting 10,000 to rally the cry for egg rights is 5% of the total population of this city. We have to get 100,000 people on board just to have a tie vote.

This is why I blame more things on the news than on the government. The news is supposed to deliver, well, news. The facts. A non-biased look on both sides of the argument so that people know the basics and can do their own research to decide where they stand. But people don't want that anymore. They want entertainment. They want to turn on the news and see some guy spout his opinions on how all of these crazy conspiracies are ruining our country and if we don't do something now then...something will happen! They want to turn to a news organization (both the right AND the left) that agrees with their viewpoints. Local news outlets get better ratings when they cater to the popular opinion in the area. National news outlets get more ratings if they entertain than if they inform.

Instead of knowing what is actually going on, we have people talking about how Farmer Brown is going to be shut down and thrown in jail because he is growing tomatoes on his front porch. Or that poor Mama Jean had all of her animals siezed because keeping 25 chickens is inhumane. Few people bother doing the research anymore. We take horrible news at face value because we have allowed ourselves to believe that we have a horrible government that doesn't care at all about us and who is apparently bent on World Domination through coddling us and...doing everything we don't want them to do and yet still being elected.

Really, I can't keep up with all of the conspiracies any more. Which is frustrating, because I love talking to people about what they think (even if I am a little blunt and a bit of a heavy hitter
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. Instead of getting genuine, can-cite-proof-as-needed debate, you get opinions and vague horror stories that have been turned so inside out that they don't even begin to resemble what actually happened.

And as a reminder, I DO think that our government needs work. Nothing is perfect, and that goes double for how legal system. But our system works, for better or worse. In a country as diverse as ours, not everyone will be happy. We, as a country, get to rally together and change the things we want changed. And we need to understand that a hundred thousand people rallying together in a country of millions is still a small number.
 
Omniskies, what you describe is exactly what makes me believe that the EU is a bad idea. The bigger the political and economic unit the less say has the small guy and the more influential becomes the big group or business. Other parts of the world are doing the same this, ASEAN, for example. The US is planning, what, an American continent co-operative unit with Canada and the south? When the little man can no longer be heard you have lost your democracy. That's the conspiracy.
 
Not necessarily. You have to remember, one of the reasons the US became so powerful in the first place is because our states are the size of your countries. Maintaining state rights allows for the little voice to still be heard. But a lot of fringe groups won't be - just like they won't be heard in any other county. Take the UK and gun rights for example. I know a fair few people out in England with a gun fetish who won't be able to own a half dozen AK-47s just because he likes to hear them go boom. Those people not being allowed to own guns isn't a giant conspiracy against their freedoms. It's because the majority of the country believes that guns are evil and don't want to take the chance.

The average American want our food fast, inexpensive, and safe. Overall, we don't care about how that is done. Throw dye in there and artificial flavoring if it will make it cheaper. Sugar and honey are both expensive? No big deal, add high fructose corn syrup. Animal abuse is rampant in the meat industry? Well...that sucks. But doing something about it won't affect the cost of our 4th of July BBQ, will it?

Safe is key. When 100 people out of billions come down sick because of food poisoning it becomes national news for a week. Really. A whole freaking week. Because the news loves shock stories. And YOUR FOOD WILL KILL YOU is up there with TERRORIST SUSPECT FOUND. If you tell someone that eggs kept out of the fridge aren't safe and a movement will start to ensure that all eggs sold for human consumption are kept cool while waiting to be purchased (for the record, this is already happening due to the egg scare). Are they wrong? No. Eggs that sit out in the sun for a few hours at the Farmer's Market do have a higher chance of growing creepy-crawlies than eggs on an assembly line. Should we do something about it? I'm not sure. I've been to swap meets where the Amish are selling eggs that hatcheries didn't need. They have week-old eggs by the caseload sitting out in the August sun that have never seen a fridge. They don't care what you do with them (and they've been eating them, so the eggs are fine as far as they know). Should selling those to giddy people - who are convinced that Amish food is totally better than grocery store food - be legal?

I can understand why you aren't a fan of the EU, but for all of its flaws, it would work. Unifying people under one banner smooths things over. I'm so glad that when I travel 1,000 miles away I don't have to learn a new language - just understand a new dialect (which usually isn't hard at all). And when I decide I want to go to California or Maine, the signs and general laws are still the same. No matter which state I go to, my rights are protected. And if I break the law in any of the 50 states each and every one of those states knows how to handle it.

Then again, you guys are trying to unite established countries that have spent centuries doing things their way. All we had to do was have territories pay to become official and swat them in line occasionally to get them to behave.

Regardless, the whole conspiracy thing is nonsense. Conspiracies are the lazy man's answer when they don't want to do hours of boring research to figure out how things really work. It's a whole lot easier to decide some shadowy government is oppressing our rights than it is to research what is going on and why. Most people are more than happy to spend hours complaining, but reduce their knowledge to what such-and-such said, or some biased article they read that swears it's the whole truth and nothing but. We always want an enemy. The people who tell us what to do is an easy target. Even if he's telling us what to do because we told him to do that in the first place.

Go figure.
 
Today, you could be a solid, upstanding, law abiding citizen. Tomorrow, a criminal, at the hands of a few, who desire your money and your property....How many of us, gladly, willingly, give up basic freedoms, to live a lifestyle, which we deem acceptable, just because it fits our current mindset....I'm talking about communities with HOA's, who can levy a fine for hundreds of dollars against you, because you didn't cut your grass every week.
 
I am at a loss to divine or understand the basic premise behind this thread.

Everyone appears currently, to be free to grow and buy/sell organic, healthy produce. No law on the dock changes that.
 
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That is true, welsummerchicks. Really hope it stays that way. I cannot see it changing in my lifetime, but I've been wrong before. There is just an ominous undercurrent that would seem to say restrictions will tighten and possibly in the future filter down to us peons growing our own food for our families. Most Americans, especially the baby boomers, have a knee-jerk reaction to anything that smacks of tightening government restrictions on the masses. Only time will tell.
 

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