Using Lavs in making buffs.

[Poulets De Cajun]

I thought those were porcelain? Are we using Isabel and Porcelain interchangeably?

I wish people would use one set of words, either European or American.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Blue was used to lighten black in the buffs' tails & wings.

Lavender was added to dilute the buff to isabel.

Two separate projects.

Blue dilutes eumelanin (black pigment), but has only a slight effect on pheomelanin (red pigment). Lavender dilutes both eumelanin and pheomelanin equally.

 

[Poulets De Cajun]

Quote:
That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.... and is actually quite frustrating.

Isabel, Porcelain, Lemon/Citron, Buff.... what the flip is the difference?

True Porcelain requres the mille fleur pattern underneath, so buff over lavender is NOT porcelain.

God I'm going to have to quit reading these kinds of threads.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

thought those were porcelain? Are we using Isabel and Porcelain interchangeably?

I wish people would use one set of words, either European or American.

Yes, I have started calling my porcelains "isabel porcelain," although they do not have mottle (of course if and when I start getting results on my mottle silkie project, that may change

) But at this point "porcelain" is what most US silkie breeders are calling them. "Isabel porcelain" seems like a reasonable step towards an accurate description that communicates what they are with other breeders. Whether to keep the "porcelain" portion of the name is something for the future.

Several judges are told me that they are not porcelain, and that that name would be unlikely to be approved when they get to the point of recognition--it is too different from the patterned recognised porcelain description. By the way, two of htese judges are absolutely enthralled with the birds and their colour. Blue wheaten was suggested, but the problem with that is that it would imply a very different phenotype for the males than what they are. Isabel is a name used in other countries for lavender diluted buff, and I understand it is also a term used in the US with pigeons.

Absolutely agreed--there are many comments on this board and another about terminology--one term meaning several different things and several terms meaning the same thing: confusing!​

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Join the frustration club

Differences in language are reasonable: red, rojo, rouge, etc. Differences in terminology that are not based upon different language are frustrating, but it isn't limited to chicken colours. Try telling an Englishman to mow his yard and he'll think you're crazy; tell an American to mow his garden and he'll think the same.

Basic genetic lesson:

Chicken plumage is determined by only two pigments: eumelanin and pheomelanin, black & red. There are a number of genes that dilute (and others that intensify) the pigment present in a bird. Some affect only, or mostly one, of the pigments; others affect both equally.

Blue (Bl) has very little affect on red pigment, but can have significant affect on black pigment. Lavender (lav) affects both pigments equally.

Dilute (Di), champagne blonde (Cb) and inhibitor of gold, aka cream, (ig) are three separate genes that affect primarily red pigment. Di also affects dermal pigment; ig does not; not sure about Cb. Di is incompletely dominant; Cb is dominant and ig is recessive. I think the appearance is difference depending on which of these dilution genes are present--singly or in combination. Perhaps Henk can clarify this.

 

[Poulets De Cajun]

There isn't any blue in chicken colors, only red brown and black, and white is the absence of all these.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Chris--not sure I understand what you mean? I think our posts may be crossing.

 

[Poulets De Cajun]

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Who knows... at this point I'm going cross eyed.... LOL